At least that's what a survey conducted by Sony Online Entertainment has revealed.  Conducted among female students currently enrolled in game design, programming and visual effects at The Art Institutes schools, the survey showed that 61% "believe male dominance in the industry is a deterrent to women pursuing a career in gaming" and 42% "would like to see women portrayed as leaders in video games."

As a result, this inspired SOE to form G.I.R.L. (Gamers In Real Life), a scholarship program to educate and recruit women in the video game industry. The announcement of the scholarship program was made during the Game Developers Conference last month at an event for SOE's upcoming spy-themed MMO "The Agency."

Representives of G.I.R.L. included some of SOE's executive staff as well as women working directly on "The Agency" from SOE Seattle, like producers Sherry Floyd and Heather Sowards.

Being that women working in games is a topic I'm quite interested in, I sat down with both Floyd and Sowards the day after the event to talk about what it's like to be women working in a male-dominated field.

One reason why it's good to have women in games? They know how female video game characters should dress. During my conversation with Floyd, who works on the art content of "The Agency," she told me:

"We have to do a lot of women's clothing; half of the characters in the game are women. ... I think it's really good to have a female perspective there. I know more than once I've talked to an artist and said, 'Um, you can't cut the sleeves like that because her bra would show.' You've got full-figured women in the game, and they would have to wear a bra! [laughs] Actually, everybody's really respectful about it, and we do laugh a lot when we have these conversations. And I would say the men in our creative group definitely know a lot more about shoes, the cuts of blazers, A-line skirts versus pencil skirts and everything else than they ever cared to know. But they're definitely educated now, and they've educated me as well, so it's been really good."

Sowards and Floyd each have had several years experience working in the games industry; Sowards has been a music composer and audio director for video games, while Floyd worked in print advertising and then at RPG publisher Wizards of the Coast before coming to SOE. With previous experience in mostly male fields, working at SOE Seattle -- where about 10% of its 70 employees are female -- wasn't weird for either.

In fact, both women said they felt a little strange being called out to represent the G.I.R.L. scholarship program. "It feels a little unusual because I don't think about the fact that I'm a female in games hardly ever," Sowards said. "We're all building a game, we're all having a great time, and I don't think about the fact that I'm a girl walking in the office in the morning, so you shouldn't either."

Floyd added that while they don't necessarily like focusing on their gender, it's something that could have positive effects for other women interested in making and playing games, especially considering the survey results. "I think some women might be scared by the industry or don't really know what the industry is about or understand the opportunities that may be there for them," she said. "And so the G.I.R.L. initiative, I think, is really trying to get the word out about that. ... It's just going to take a while for people to realize that hey, there are actually all these women who game. I think it's already happening, and I'm just glad to be a part of anything that can help usher the communication and positive light."

Both women said they haven't faced any major challenges based on their gender during their careers. However, Sowards did have one issue when she started in the games industry about 12 years ago. "I think probably one of the biggest challenges I've had was when I first started in the industry was to make sure that when people came to the studio they didn't call me the secretary because I was the only woman in the office," she said, laughing. I asked her if that still happens now. "No, it does not!"

What about the folks who think that the scholarship is singling girls out, and that gender shouldn't matter? "I would like to believe that gender doesn't matter but there is a difference," Floyd said. "I will occasionally wear skirts and high heels and most of the men in the office do not," she added, joking.

But in all seriousness, they do have advice for young women who feel intimidated about working the games industry. "It's not that bad out here, and there's nothing to be scared of," Sowards said. "You just gotta buck it up and go in there. If you really want to do it, just go ahead and do it!"

Floyd also said that it's really important to get more women, and different kinds of people in general, working in games: "I think diversity is always good. I think young, old, male, female -- it doesn't really matter. We just need talented people. And the industry is really low on resources, and so the more people we can get in, the better. And you know what? It would be great if some more of those people were females."

MTV Multiplayer blogger Tracey John had been wanting to interview women in the gaming industry for quite some time.

As 2007 drew to a close she found five with whom she could conduct frank interviews about the highs and lows of being female in a predominantly male industry.

We're indexing those conversations in one place. Lots of mixed opinions in these Q&As and some interesting feedback in the comments sections.

• Women Working In Games: G4’s Morgan Webb Talks ‘X-Play’ And Being A Pin-Up

• Women Working In Games: Game Girl Advance’s Jane Pinckard Talks Lara Croft, Male vs. Female Gamers

• Women Working In Games: ‘Assassin’s Creed’’s Elspeth Tory On Jade Raymond And Entering The Boys’ Club

• Women Working In Games: Brenda Brathwaite On Maternity Leave, Making The ‘Playboy’ Game And Hope For The Future

• Women Working In Games: Sega PR’s Tali Fischer On Progress, Sweatpants, And Naked Women At The VGAs

• Women Working In Games: Pinckard, Brathwaite Respond To Reader Comments

More Multiplayer highlights coming tomorrow!

We heard from female journalists, developers and even a publicist, about what it's like to work in a field dominated by men. What are the advantages and disadvantages of being a woman? Did they ever feel treated differently because of their gender? They each had unique perspectives and shared personal experiences from the workplace.

We received a huge response from readers, along with some very good questions. With that, we decided to pose a few of your questions to Game Girl Advance's Jane Pinckard and "Sex in Video Games" author Brenda Brathwaite via e-mail. In my original phone interview with Pinckard, she spoke about empowering women to overcome sexism within the games industry. However, one commenter had this to say:

"Let's say you've got someone who's championing the cause of women in a specific industry, and she's all about empowering women, and against their denigration. Sounds great, right? Then you look back at her own history, and find that she's done some of the exploitative things to herself on her own, like writing an article about how she used a gaming peripheral as a sexual aid, and posting pictures of herself doing so."

Read on to find out what the commenter is talking about, and see Pinckard's and Brathwaite's responses to your burning questions...

COMMENTERS' QUESTIONS TO JANE PINCKARD:

Multiplayer: A reader wrote, "I'd be interested to have heard Jane respond to Morgan Webb's decision to star in male-directed sexualized pictorials, given this quote: 'Obviously for Jade [Raymond], she was offended that somebody would think that she would even do a Maxim cover or strip, and I think some women would. … So where is that line? I don't know.'" Your thoughts?

Pinckard: Morgan's decision is Morgan's decision -- she did what was right for her. I'm not qualified to comment on that.

Multiplayer: Regarding the Jade Raymond comic, a reader said, "I think the anger at Ubisoft is misdirected. CliffyB is a good looking guy and does interviews all the time when new Epic games are released, much to the delight of some female gamers. The difference is the response of the community. I can't recall a similar comic being created about Cliffy and that's what makes the community response disgusting and deplorable. Ubisoft is just doing what many other companies have done in the past with charismatic employees and that's put them in the public eye. No harm no foul." What do you think?

Pinckard: You're absolutely right about the community response. But if you count the number of pictorials done featuring Jade, and those featuring CliffyB... I bet you would see more pictures of Jade. And as I mentioned in the interview, it's a matter of proportion. CliffyB IS "Gears of War" - that was a game that he drove from the very beginning, a game he poured himself into in every respect. It makes sense that he is intimately tied to it. Without overlooking Jade's incredible accomplishments on a great game, I'd still say her role was different. But you're absolutely right that Ubisoft was just doing what game companies do, what corporations do - promoting their product by using whatever they have handy. Just because everyone else does it, though, doesn't make it right.

Multiplayer: A couple of readers mentioned this. One in particular wrote, "Let's say you've got someone who's championing the cause of women in a specific industry, and she's all about empowering women, and against their denigration. Sounds great, right? Then you look back at her own history, and find that she's done some of the exploitative things to herself on her own, like writing an article about how she used a gaming peripheral as a sexual aid, and posting pictures of herself doing so." How do you respond to people that think that's hypocritical to your message of female empowerment?

Pinckard: Writing openly about female sexual pleasure is not empowering to women? Look, I guess there are always going to be some people who think ANY depiction of female sexuality is necessarily degrading to women. That's very sad. But there is an important context for the photo and the article, which in retrospect I realize was really radical, and challenging. The article describes an entirely new interactive experience with gaming - something that no one had ever written about before. It really pushes the idea of synesthesia -- which was the point of "Rez" -- and what could be possible with interactive technology. Is that exploitative? I don't think so. I wrote the article authentically and sincerely, and I took one photo of myself in which I'm wearing more than I'd wear to the beach.

Sex in games, sex and technology, sex and women, are subjects that as the industry matures we must tackle, seriously and playfully and respectfully - and it's a potentially exciting new frontier. I deeply respect the work that Brenda Braithwaite, Regina Lynn, Violet Blue, and others do. We need to do more of it. And we need to create a space for this dialog that is safe, where women can participate without being called hypocrites, sluts, or worse - all of which I've been called. I'm really proud of that article. I think it really touched a nerve with people, it influenced people, it made an impact, and I got a ton of positive email from both women and men about it. I think in some small way I did help expand the dialog, and that is always my goal.

A COMMENTER'S QUESTIONS TO BRENDA BRATHWAITE:

Multiplayer: One reader wrote, "I couldn't agree more with what Henry Jenkins said, but perhaps counter to what Ms. Brathwaite may believe, it's my personal opinion that 'Playboy: The Mansion' is irresponsible. This of course is tied in to my personal view on the morality of pornography, but I think Playboy magazines, games as well as other merchandise promotes the idea that women are objects as well as takes advantage of women who are willing to degrade themselves for money." What do you say to people who think it was irresponsible of you to help make a game like "Playboy: The Mansion"?

The same reader said: "I'm having trouble reconciling that Ms. Brathwaite is displeased with the hyper-sexualized representation of women in 'Tomb Raider' and 'Baldur's Gate' but has no qualms with 'Playboy' (but perhaps her only issue is the gender inequality between male and female game avatars, although 'Playboy: The Mansion' seems guilty of that as well)." What is your response?

Brathwaite:

Hi Tracey,

I caught that post, in fact. It was eloquently stated. I will explain more fully where I sit on the issue, and my own views are evolving all the time. Here's where I am today.

It's not that I have a problem with hyper-sexualized women in video game worlds, per se. After all, there are a great many sexy women in the "Playboy: The Mansion" game. However, I believe there is, perhaps, an optimum way to consider sexual content's inclusion just as there is in other forms of media. (As your reader suggests, the "optimum way" sways in one direction or another given the person's feelings toward such content.)

For instance, if the character is, by default, sexed up in a plate mail thong bikini (I've seen it in a game, but can you seriously imagine that?), it would be ideal if the player had an option to wear something different. What's appealing to one person may not be appealing to another. Having the option to change outfits (and not from a plate thong to a chain thong to a leather thong) would be preferable.

Another thing that I find odd is how often it's just the women who are portrayed this way, and these characters contrast so heavily with the male characters in the same world. In "Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance," the game I referred to earlier, it just kind of looks funny to me. In that game, she does have an option to wear other clothing, of course, but that intro screen still gets me every time and makes me laugh. I'm definitely not trashing the game. I really enjoyed it, and have played it a few times, in fact. The contrast is just so obvious there.

However, the game provides a good illustrative point of the difference between the portrayal of men and women in some video game worlds - how about a little equal opportunity? It's easy to say that it's mostly men who play games, but women and gay guys play games, too. For the men on that "BG:DA" screen, the default option is covered in clothes, head to toe. For her, it's thigh high boots and a body stocking. I'm not suggesting they all start like that, though, particularly the dwarf there in the middle.

In "Playboy: The Mansion," as your reader notes, there's this same disparity - lots of sexy women that you can even do photo shoots with. No such thing for the men in the game. This isn't a reflection of my personal tastes, but rather a reflection of the IP on which it was built. As a designer, there was no other choice to make. "Playboy" is a magazine that features beautiful women in its centerfolds. So, that's what the game mimicked.

That said, including it just for the frig of it may not make the most sense for all games.

When people play a game, and the perceived sexual content is out of context, it just looks weird and can actually turn someone off video games, particularly if this is one of the first mainstream games they've played. More than one woman has walked away from a game based on how the characters look; I know because I hear about it all the time (though I'm willing to bet Sheri Graner Ray hears about it a whole lot more). In a nutshell, when the content is out of context and doesn't fit with the overall narrative of the game, there are consequences to that. Seeing topless women in "Playboy: The Mansion" isn't a surprise. Seeing a woman in a chain mail bikini in an RPG can be. When faced with monsters, swords and fireballs, I think most medieval women might have at least preferred an option for a little cover. As artists, though, I support a designer's decision to include whatever they choose to include. They may not attract a particular audience based on those decisions, though.

The phenomena of hot women vs. moderately attractive or even unattractive guys isn't unique to games, of course. As humans, we are just prone to prefer attractive people. In most forms of media, you have a mix of attractive men and women. In games, hot guys still have a ways to go. On one list, Link was considered the most attractive, though I'd give the honor to Kratos, myself.

When it comes to pornography and morality, we get into really touchy ground there. What's acceptable to one person is completely off limits to another. I support that totally. Actually, that lends credence to my earlier point - nudes in "Playboy: The Mansion" shouldn't surprise anyone. If you bought the game expecting something different, that would be surprising. It's not so hip in any form of media when players don't expect it and can't do anything to change it.

Regarding nudity, my personal opinion runs along the lines of Hugh Hefner's. There's a quote from his Playboy Philosophy which reads "If the human body - far and away the most remarkable, the most complicated, the most perfect and the most beautiful creation on this earth - can become objectionable, obscene or abhorrent when purposely posed and photographed to capture that remarkable perfection and beauty, then the world is a far more cockeyed place than we are willing to admit."

I very much support your reader's opinions on nudity, though. Everyone is entitled to that, and I'd hope he'd not find objectionable content in any form of media if he were not looking for it.

brenda

For more thoughts on the gaming world from Jane Pinckard and Brenda Brathwaite, check out Pinckard's blog Game Girl Advance and Brathwaite's applied game design blog.

We've heard from journalists Morgan Webb and Jane Pinckard as well as game developers Elspeth Tory and Brenda Brathwaite.

Another sector of gaming that I wanted to delve into was public relations. There are many, many women working in public relations in general, and gaming is no exception. When I was asking around for female game developers, I stumbled upon Tali Fischer, who was willing to answer my questions via e-mail earlier this week.

Currently a public relations manager at Sega of America, the 32 year-old has been working in gaming PR for eight years. She seems to have had a positive experience overall and doesn't see any sexism within the video games industry:

Fischer: ...I feel like there is this constant scrutiny on everyone's behavior looking for an indication of sexism here. Almost like people outside the industry hope there is more sexism to point a finger at. I don't feel like there is. I do feel like every industry has its politics and every industry has its personality conflicts and every industry has its extreme example of bad interpersonal behavior. But when it comes to video games, there really is no dramatic story of women prevailing over the big bad men. ...

Read on for Fischer's thoughts on what it's like to work in gaming PR, how the industry has evolved, and speaking with journalists about Lara Croft's breasts...

Multiplayer: How did you get started in the industry? Can you give some background on what you've done and what you do now?

Fischer: I fell into the industry actually. I finished school and moved back home and started job hunting. I called up a company called Guilletmot in Montreal. I knew the name and that they were involved in video games somehow, but I really didn't know too much about the industry itself. It was almost like video games chose me, because I got the job and haven't looked back since. I've been lucky enough to work for some great companies and in some amazing studios, and now I get to work with a video game icon -- Sonic the Hedgehog.

Multiplayer: Do you think being a woman posed any challenges that you don't think men would've faced along your career? Did you have to work harder to prove yourself because you're a woman?

Fischer: I think being a woman in general poses challenges in life that men don't face. But I've never felt, in my career, that I was judged unfairly because of my gender. In fact, I would say the video game industry has really embraced having women in it, especially women who actually play games. I think there is a respect there that we wouldn't get working anywhere else. Nerdiness is supported and nurtured in the video games industry, and I am definitely as nerdy as they get.

Multiplayer: Did you ever feel that people have different expectations of you because you're a woman?

Fischer: I can't say that I do. I think people have expectations more based on how long I've been working in video games and doing PR but as a woman -- no.

Multiplayer: Did you ever feel you were treated differently based on your sex within the industry? By co-workers, journalists, developers or others?

Fischer: Nope -- and that is why I love working in this industry. I know it sounds a little cheesy, but it seems like a big happy family. Everyone is pretty down-to-earth and easy to get along with.

Multiplayer: What are the advantages and disadvantages of being a woman in the industry?

Fischer: Hmmm -- that is a really tough question. I think there are advantages to being in the video games industry but I don't know how much that changes based on gender. I often think that because this is such a young and progressive industry, we don't run into as many old-school anti-women working mentalities as maybe some other industries are accused of. I would be lying if I said I didn't still get that little thrill when people ask me what I do and get really excited when I tell them that I work in video games. It makes me feel like a bit of a celebrity amongst the game fans. I honestly can't think of anything that makes for a gender-based advantage or disadvantage in this industry. I would like to think that is just because most of the people who do this are great.

Multiplayer: I've heard some horror stories about PR: PR women seducing game journalists, game journalists treating PR women with disrespect. Is there any truth to those sort of stories?

Fischer: I can honestly say I have never run into that. I've been treated fairly and with respect throughout my career. I've worked with some amazing journalists who have become great friends. We have all heard the stories though, and I think those apply to every industry. Every industry has its urban myths about how people get ahead. But when it comes down to it, there isn't a great scandal in this industry, just a bunch of really passionate people working as hard as they can to get the best work done.

Multiplayer: Have you ever felt that your gender was an advantage to helping you in your job?

Fischer: No, I've never felt that way. I've always felt that I am fortunate enough to have the right personality to do PR and the passion for video games to be successful in this industry. I see myself as incredibly lucky. When I hear people say that being good at PR is a gender-related thing, I think it fundamentally takes away from someone just being good because they are good. It has nothing to do with anything but talent and skill and a willingness to work as hard as you can to excel.

Multiplayer: Is it easier to relate to female game journalists versus male game journalists? Why or why not?

Fischer: Nope. I find it pretty easy to relate to anyone. We are all culturally in the same boat -- we play the same games, watch the same shows, read the same books-- which again, isn't about gender. Generationally, we can all relate to each other.

Multiplayer: Working in gaming PR, have you ever felt any awkwardness when dealing with journalists or developers?

Fischer: I have definitely found myself in situations where I work with someone I admire and have felt awkward in that you-are-my-hero kind of way. But that is about it.

Multiplayer: In gaming PR, do you have to be a gamer? Are most publicists gamers?

Fischer: There are absolutely people in gaming PR who aren't gamers. Personally, I definitely feel there is an advantage to being a gamer or at least having an appreciation for what video games are. Knowing what a gamer likes means you know what a gamer is looking for in a game -- and that helps immensely.

Multiplayer: Do you ever feel self-conscious when playing games in front of or with men?

Fischer: Only when I'm no good at the game -- and it doesn't matter who else is in the room -- if I can't win, I don't want to play. I'm a bit of a perfectionist that way. Even though I'm not afraid to make a fool of myself when playing "Samba de Amigo" or "Guitar Hero" and maybe a little "DDR."

Multiplayer: Do you ever put any thought into what you wear when going to events? (I feel that guys have to worry less about their image than women.)

Fischer: Of course I do! But I also worry about what I wear to go to the corner store to get milk (even though the older I get, the more I think sweatpants are acceptable weekend attire).

Multiplayer: Why do you think the gaming press focus on women in gaming the way they do?

Fischer: The video games industry has definitely evolved. When I look back on when I started, I can safely say that I worked mostly with men -- especially on the development side. But it is now eight years later and there are women everywhere. I guess an evolution like that is worth talking about and makes for an interesting story.

Multiplayer: Why do you think gamers focus on women in gaming the way they do?

Fischer: I think gamers have stereotypically been portrayed as these anti-social guys playing alone in their basement. But that stereotype that is so completely off now, gamers are thrilled to know how many other people there are doing it and it is even more interesting to show that it isn't a guy thing... there are women out there too. It is a social thing.

Multiplayer: Why do you think there aren't more women gamers?

Fischer: Maybe because so many people grew up believing that stereotype? I look at girls today-- and my sister is the perfect example. She is 12 and has Wii and DS and plays PS2 and PC games. She is definitely growing up a gamer. Video games are for everyone now and as these new generations grow up into the target market, we will see a change in who the core gamer is.

Multiplayer: What can women do to cope and overcome sexism in the gaming industry (if you think it exists)?

Fischer: I think people overall need to stop trying to look for it. We all work hard. Male, female, old, young. It has stopped being about anything other than the quality of work you put out.

Multiplayer: What do you think of the way people reacted to Jade Raymond on the internet?

Fischer: Jade Raymond is definitely a beautiful woman and a great speaker. That will always make someone appealing (though I think that works if the spokesperson is male or female). People react to her because she isn't that stereotype gamer, and they aren't sure how to take her yet.

Multiplayer: What advice do you have for women in the industry who have to deal with this type of scrutiny? Can women avoid it?

Fischer: Well, being that I've never felt those things, I don't know what advice to offer that would really be helpful. All I can say is that this industry recognizes the people who work hard and have a true passion for what they do so be persistent and work hard and success will follow.

Multiplayer: Do you feel like you should be a spokesperson for female gamers?

Fischer: Sure. I think anyone can be a spokesperson for female gamers. Anyone who can appreciate what games have to offer, the worlds they take you to and adventures they lead you on, can talk about what makes them awesome. And everyone's thoughts and experiences and passions will be completely different. That is what makes the industry so exciting. Each experience is so individual.

Since this interview was done via e-mail, I had some follow-up questions for Fischer. She wrote me back yesterday:

Multiplayer: Before, when I asked you about women overcoming sexism in gaming, you said: "I think people overall need to stop trying to look for it. We all work hard. Male, female, old, young. It has stopped being about anything other than the quality of work you put out."

What do you mean by people "trying to look for it"? Do you think people are finding sexism where it doesn't exist? What do you say to things that are blatantly sexist, such as comments about women's appearances on these gaming blogs?

Fischer: Well, it is like one of the questions you asked earlier -- why are the press so interested in women/sexism in gaming. I don't know... but I feel like there is this constant scrutiny on everyone's behavior looking for an indication of sexism here. Almost like people outside the industry hope there is more sexism to point a finger at. I don't feel like there is. I do feel like every industry has its politics and every industry has its personality conflicts and every industry has its extreme example of bad interpersonal behavior. But when it comes to video games, there really is no dramatic story of women prevailing over the big bad men. There will be no video game version of "North Country"!

Multiplayer: To follow-up my question about deciding what to wear to events, is there a standard code for PR women about what they should wear to events? Do you think other women may take it too far sometimes?

Fischer: There is definitely no standard code for women. Just a standard code in general of trying to look professional. In general, do I think as a society we worry about looks too much? Well, that is a whole different debate. But I will happily spearhead the crusade for footie pajamas at the workplace!

Multiplayer: When I asked you about what you thought of the way people reacted to Jade Raymond on the internet, you said, "People react to her because she isn't that stereotype gamer and they aren't sure how to take her yet."

But why do you think gamers aren't sure how to react to her? Earlier you mentioned that you think gamers are thrilled to have women making games, but that didn't seem to be the case for Jade looking at a lot of the comments made about her.

Fischer: To be honest, I haven't really been following all the comments made about Jade. I just hear rumors that people have been critical. I think there are always people who are intimidated by people who are good-looking or successful and maybe that is where negative comments come from. Honestly, I don't know. It seems there is always someone who wants to rock the boat and criticize though, even when there is nothing to criticize someone for.

I do think that, for the most part, people are thrilled to have gamers of all ages, genders, backgrounds, likes, dislikes out there because it forces the market to make all kinds of games to reach out to different kinds of gamers. The more varied the market, the more varied the games. Who wouldn't be excited about there being more choice out there?

Multiplayer: You were at Eidos before you came to Sega. Was it ever awkward talking about Lara Croft or seeing how guys reacted to her? Did you feel like you had to emphasize how sexualized she is? Or to be blunt, did you even find yourself talking to reporters about Lara's breasts ever? How'd that go?

Fischer: Well, I would be lying if I said the topic didn't come up. But it was always said with a sense of humor. It was never a dirty-old-man-staring kind of icky situation. I do kind of find it interesting how a cyber-vixen like Lara can have such huge admirers in the real world. I think it is a real tribute to how far the graphics in the industry have some.

Multiplayer: Did you watch the Video Game Awards over the past weekend? They showed nude women being painted on with various video game themes. How do you feel about women being shown like this to promote video games?

Fischer: When it comes down to it -- beauty sells. No matter what industry. Putting a good looking guy out front (like Abercrombie) appeals, having beautiful women starring in television shows appeals, and so does a great figure in body paint. The day we start looking at something like this and saying it is a bad thing and is sexist is the day we need to re-evaluate pop culture as a whole. Look at any magazine cover for beauty or health or men's magazines -- it is just as provocative. When it comes down to it, we all like eye candy. That isn't video game-specific -- it is a cultural thing. I'd be happy if they painted George Clooney and threw him up there!

This interview is the last in our week-long series of "Women Working in Games." Got thoughts on Tali Fischer's interview or any of the other interviews? Let us know!

After speaking with two journalists, "X-Play"'s Morgan Webb and Game Girl Advance's Jane Pinckard, and another game developer, Ubisoft's Elspeth Tory, I also really wanted to talk to Brathwaite because of her experience in the industry. She is the "longest-serving woman in computer games," with 26 years under her belt, and she's also the chair and founder of the International Game Developers Association's Sex Special Interest Group. Brathwaite has extensively studied and worked on sexually-themed video games, such as "Playboy: The Mansion," and written a book on the subject titled "Sex in Video Games." With her experience and expertise in the industry, I figured that she would have a lot of interesting things to say to about her personal experiences as a woman in gaming over the years.

I caught up with the 41 year-old trailblazer on the phone last week. We covered a lot. Here's just one highlight from the long interview that follows:

Brathwaite: Sheri [Graner Ray] in this lecture, she gives has an amazingly great slide of these hyper-sexualized men. And they're not even fully hyper-sexualized. If they were really hyper-sexualized , they'd probably be showing something you wouldn't show in a large auditorium to people. With this hyper-sexualized male characters, I love to look at the audience and watch how they react. The men are like, "Agh, would you get this off?" And the women are pleasantly surprised like," Finally, something for us to look at." And it's always amusing to me to see people's responses to this. And as a gamer who has been a gamer forever, if I see a woman in a thong in a game, honestly I don't even think twice, because I'm so used to it at this point.

Read on for more of Brathwaite's anecdotes, including how she's hopeful for women getting into the industry, the weirdness of working on a "Playboy" game, being the first pregnant woman at her company, and what it's like to be mistaken for a booth babe.

Multiplayer: How did you get started playing games and working in the industry?

Brathwaite: I don't remember not playing games. I think my pre-industry experience is me building LEGO houses and wishing people would go through them. I really would. I'd build these enormous houses out of LEGOs which turned out to be just a really primitive form of level design, I guess. But I got into the industry in a really non-traditional way. I was 15, and I was talking to another person who was also 15, and she happened to be one of the owners, believe it or not, of a software company that her brothers founded, and it was the company that published "Wizardry," and that's how I got into the industry in the first place. My job was to know everything there was to know about the games, so that when people called up and wanted to know how to kill the wizard on the tenth level, I could tell them. There was an internet then, but maybe a hundred people had access to it. So if people were stuck in a game they would call, and I was the person they would speak to.

Multiplayer: And who was the other 15 year-old?

Brathwaite: It was Linda Currie. Then it was Linda Sirotek, and the company was Sir-Tech Software. Currie is her married name, and she's a design director at Blue Fang, the company that makes "Zoo Tycoon." She's still in the industry too, believe it or not.

Multiplayer: So you and Linda are the longest-serving women in video games?

Brathwaite: See, Linda left the industry for a few years, thus allowing me to get a leg up on her. And I'm still working, and I'm still consulting, and I'm working with a client on a project right now. So I guess as long as I have a client… According to Ernest Adams, anyway, he did all this research, and according to him I'm the longest-serving woman in computer games, which is really quite an honor. There are some achievements you can get if you don't leave, and this is one of them.

Multiplayer: Tell me about your career path.

Brathwaite: Back then, so we're talking 1981, right? This is when I get started, and there is an industry, but many of us who are in it aren't even aware that we're at the beginning of something historic. I was talking to Rich Carlson, he's over at Digital Eel, and we were talking about those early days of the industry and whether or not we were aware that this was truly a historic thing happening. And for some reason I really wasn't [aware]. I was there right from the get-go, but really wasn't aware that this was this major transformative media thing that was happening. Rich, on the other hand, was more savvy. So I worked at Sir-Tech, and then when I got old enough to go to college, I went to college but continued to work at Sir-Tech to put myself through college. And when I got out of college -- this is sort of the defining moment I guess. I interviewed with IBM, and I very vividly remember as if it were yesterday the interview with IBM. Somebody said to me, as we were rounding this corner of cubicles, "And you would be revising DOS manuals." And I remember thinking, "No, you can just stop the interview right now, because no, I won't." And I don't know what it was, but it was right there that I truly decided, "Okay, enough of this."

I had the job at Sir-Tech, and it was really expected that I was going to grow up and get a real job. Because nowadays parents think it's odd when kids say they want to grow up and be a game designer. Imagine it's 1989 when I was saying it, right? I might as well have just said, "I want to be Marlon Brando" or "I want to be a rock star." It would have had the same "whatever" to it. So I went back to Sir-Tech, who was phenomenally supportive of me, and they knew I was going out and interviewing with these companies. And I went back and said, "You know, I think I'd rather just stay here." And they were really happy. And so I literally stayed there for 18 years and had a great time, and we're still all in regular contact with each other.

At Sir-Tech I went through the ranks, almost like an apprenticeship. I was very fortunate. The industry was smaller then, and I was able to work alongside some amazing game designers. And, if you get the trust of the game designer, what will ultimately happen is that they'll get overwhelmed, and when they get overwhelmed, there's too much work and they'll say, "Hey can you find me this? Can you do this?" And I can't say that I had actually had that plan in mind, but I just loved it. I loved it. It was really working with digital LEGOs. So I rose up through the ranks, and eventually I started writing for the games, and I started doing design until however many years later I was lead designer. So that was my path at Sir-Tech.

Sir-Tech closed in 2001. Largely the industry at that point in time, to be a little publisher, which is what Sir-Tech was, putting out one or two titles a year -- forget it. And even with the recent Vivendi/Blizzard merger, forget it. The little guys, especially when they were that little, don't stand a chance. So Sir-Tech closed, and it was really this bitter-sweet thing. I had been working with the same group of people on the same franchise for I think seven years. With the case of Linda, I'd been working with Linda for 18 years! And so it was real bitter-sweet, but after that I went to Atari and worked at Atari for a number of years. And I worked for a company called Cyberlore also on the East coast for a number of years.

Now I teach; I'm a professor of game design at Savannah College of Art and Design. And still I work on games constantly. I study games. I’m currently making a text adventure game, just because I can. There's no reason. It's completely, commercially silly, but I felt like doing it. And I wanted to explore a couple things for the heck of it, and I have that freedom now. And, as I've mentioned, I'm still consulting in the industry. But I love games. I honestly can't imagine working with any other medium. I guess it would be akin to an artist who's doing commercial art and then goes into education, but it really frees you up to do all other kinds of creative stuff. That's my story arc for the career there.

Multiplayer: So when you said you wanted to be a game designer in 1989 people thought that was weird. Did people think it was weird because game design was so new or because you were a woman that wanted to go into game design, something that might've been seen as a "guy thing"?

Brathwaite: Yes, to both of the above I think. First of all, it was so obscure that back then if I had said I wanted to be a game designer people would say, "Well, what's that?" Or they actually may have assumed board games, particularly in the early days. And so also people would say things like, "Oh, so you're a programmer," and game design isn't necessarily about that. I guess being an architect for a game. You don't do the actual construction, but you're laying the foundation and blueprints and all that sort of stuff. There's another woman, Sheri Graner Ray, she and I go way back. She was working on the "Ultima" series when I was working on the "Wizardry" series. She hasn't been around quite as long as I have, but we talk about the original, old GDCs, and there were just a handful of women. Just a handful of women. Last year, and it actually made news somewhere, there was a line at the women's bathroom at GDC, and were all just like, "My god, it's historic! There's a line!" There's never a line at the women's bathroom at GDC. And now I will go to events and not know all the women there, and that's a real treat. But back in the early days of the industry, I could name all the female designers on one hand. We all knew who each other was. But now there are lots of female designers that I don't know. That said, it's still a pretty small industry. I usually will recognize the names, even if I don't know them personally.

Multiplayer: So since you also play games growing up, was that ever considered weird...

Brathwaite: Oh, it still is. This hasn't changed at all. Not at all, ironically. Bear in mind that I'm 41, and I have many friends who are my age, and I also have students that I teach at college, and tonight I'm getting together with some of my students to actually play some strategy board games like Risk and Scotland Yard. Because I asked my group of women, who are my age, "Would you guys be interested in doing a board game night?" They were like, "What?" They thought it was Monopoly, and I'm like, "It's not 'Monopoly.'" That game is based on luck. I want to do something like Risk or Axis and Allies. And they're looking at me like, "Why? This is an evening-long event. This could go on for hours." I'm like, "Yeah, isn't that great? We'll get food."

You know, I am the only hardcore gamer that I know where I live, that's my age and that's a woman. I know plenty of guys. Yeah, I'm the only who is a woman. And my husband, he doesn't care either. So it's still just as weird, but when I was growing up, absolutely. Absolutely! But I certainly generated a lot of envy, because as a 17, 18, 19-year-old, people would say they'd go to their summer jobs working at Dairy Queen. I'm at Sir-Tech playing games and getting paid for it. I mean, what better job could you possibly have as a kid than playing games and getting paid? So in addition to having the general weirdness of "Here's this woman who is really into games," there was also the general weirdness of the envy that I actually got to do that for a living.

Multiplayer: Did you feel that you faced any challenges that men wouldn't have faced along your career?

Brathwaite: No, if anything it's been a bonus. For instance, I'm doing this interview right now because I'm a woman in games, and I've done many because I was a woman in games. It's also important to have that diversity of opinion on a team, and a lot of companies recognize that. So that's been helpful. I haven't experienced, except once, anything that I would say was discrimination because of my gender. And then I would chalk it up to the guy being an idiot more than I would chalk it up to intentional discrimination. I just really think he was an idiot.

If anything, the gaming industry is a fairly liberal, hip place, and if you're making games people really don't care what your gender is. At least this has been my experience. I'm not really a tomboy, but I'm used to working with guys. I've always worked with guys. If I were in an office with all women I think I would feel really odd. So it's been a benefit to me in that respect. Absolutely, I think it’s been a tremendous benefit to me.

Oh, I know a couple things. You know some interesting things have happened. The company that I worked for had no maternity policy or maternity leave policy. Suddenly, here I am horrifically pregnant with twins, and so that had to be instituted. So I have been the creator of firsts.

I remember going to GDC one year, and I had the twins, it wasn't last year but the year before, and I was still nursing. And did they have a place where I could do that? And it was just, "What are you talking about?" Eventually they had the nurse's station that they had there, we were allowed to use that. But at the time it was sort of an odd question. I don't think it was an intentional oversight. I just think it hadn't come up, and when it did come up arrangements, were certainly made.

Multiplayer: Where was the place that didn't have a maternity leave policy?

Brathwaite: A company called Cyberlore. They had had paternity leave, but birth -- I'm remembering [another employee] left before me. His wife had a baby. They had a paternity policy. Here's a big issue: what do you do when the lead designer on a project is horrifically pregnant? And so having to come up with contingency plans for all of that sort of stuff -- Cyberlore was great. They worked with me through the whole thing. The director of operations at the time, Clarinda Merripen, she was phenomenal. She made sure that everything that I needed was taken care of. I worked from home for a while. As you can imagine I was as large as a freighter at one point in time. So I worked from home for a little bit after they were born. You see all of that was pretty good. I was the only woman who got pregnant there.

Multiplayer: Well, that's great that they established that policy for you. But even as a pregnant woman, you didn't ever feel discriminated against?

Brathwaite: No, I don't feel I've been discriminated against. Like I said, if anything, it's been a bonus. There has been some awkwardness, when I worked on the "Playboy: The Mansion" game. And there was some awkwardness. Like,"How do we talk about breasts around another woman? How do we say this?" And so there was some awkwardness. Like how do you talk to the lead designer about the sexual positions that the character might be in? And at first there was absolutely some awkwardness about that, not with me, but with the guys on the team.

Multiplayer: They felt awkward in front of you?

Brathwaite: Yeah, absolutely. Which speaks well of them, frankly. But after a while I became one of the guys, and they were never rude or crude or anything like that. But they were comfortable talking with me about it.

Multiplayer: Did you offer any suggestions on the sexual stuff?

Brathwaite: Oh absolutely, totally. Every woman I know has an opinion on breast animation, so I would frequently comment on those. Or like really subtle things, like there's this one point where you're going to go make out with [Hugh Hefner] on the couch. He's taking you over to the couch, and for some reason in my brain the woman should go to the couch first. Because when she's following the guy it just feels icky. I don't know why, it just feels icky. And there was another woman in the company who was a programmer, and she agreed with me. And Clarinda agreed with me. And it was just this unique perspective that would come out sometimes as a result of that.

Multiplayer: Were there any other awkward experiences working on that game?

Brathwaite: Well, it was open, but there were a lot of kind of funny experiences. If you were talking about -- see and I just used "you." Perfect, that's such a good example. If you're talking about game design, you will often refer to yourself as the character unintentionally. You'll say, "Okay, so I go here, and then I do this, and then I do that." But imagine if you're talking about a game that contains sexual themes. You'll be saying things like, "Okay, so I go into the apartment, and I talk to you for a while, and then you and I have sex." It's just funny no matter who's saying it. We would always crack up, it was just silly. But that was always interesting, to be sure.

Some other funny times... [Laughs] We had a real live Playboy playmate in the office. It happened a few times actually. When the guys, several of them, well more then several, maybe ten of them, were playing "Bass Trophy Fishing" or something like that on the PS2, and there's a live Playboy playmate, and here are these tragic geeks playing "Bass Trophy Fishing" or "Pro-Fishing" or whatever the heck it was. And I just thought this makes zero sense to me.

Multiplayer: Like just ignoring the Playboy bunnies to play games?

Brathwaite: Yes! Exactly! It's like, "Hey! Look! Playboy bunny." Yeah, there you go. That's like one of the funniest moments that I remember.

Multiplayer: So did the outright sexual themes in the game make the workplace actually more of a friendly environment?

Brathwaite: Absolutely. You know, and when you're working on something that sexually-themed, the office, at least our office, was really professional. After a while I'm sure that there are all kinds of glossies passed around Playboy headquarters, people aren't like, "Ooh breasts," right? So after a while, I don't want to say you become de-sensitized to it, but it loses some of that "Oooh" thrill factor. So you know, it was work. Just like all game design is work, and Playboy was a topic, just like medieval Rome could be a topic.

Multiplayer: So what I've gathered is that for you, being a woman has been an advantage in that you’ve been able to stand out, and obviously I'm talking to you right now. But did you feel that there were any disadvantages at all?

Brathwaite: If there have been, I'm not aware of them. If I was ever overlooked in an interview, I'm not aware of that happening. I would say in the early days, if the old boys' network holds true, I would say in the early days that maybe it could have been a factor then. But I was already in, so trying to break in and trying to find somebody like me, I was already there. It didn't matter. And there was Linda and I, who were together pretty much from the beginning. So I didn't see it.

Now -- and I tell students this too -- I think it's an advantage being a woman heading into the game industry, because there is a very tight-knit group of women who are power players in this industry. I don't want to say they tour, but this same group of women goes all over the country with Women in Games International. And we see each other at all the conferences. We all know who each other is, and we are very open and accessible to women who are trying to get into the industry, because we've been there. I do know some women who have had issues with different things.

Oh, you know what I just thought of? Back there in the super booth babe days at E3, if you were an attractive woman working for a game company, people would brush you off and assume that you were booth babe. And that never felt good.

Multiplayer: Did that happen to you personally?

Brathwaite: Yeah, and then you'd have to sort of work your way back like, "Wait a minute, I seriously know what I'm talking about." But when it went from models dressed like everybody else to models wearing thongs, you know, that was kind of awkward, to go to a booth and there's this phenomenally stacked woman. That could be potentially awkward. And just on the fair market value, there were very rare instances of "booth beef." So we had the babes, but rarely would there be actually a guy. So that was kind of weird.

And there were some funky things too, like again, these are things I'm never aware of. I've heard of instances where people have interviewed at companies where they were hanging out with a bunch of people from a particular company, like at GDC, and they were like, "All right, let's go out to a strip club!" Well, thanks -- have a good night, guys. That sort of stuff. But by the same token, am I going to say that at some future GDC, it's not possible that 20 women are going to make the same decision? No. It could quite possibly happen.

And like I said, if there have been things that I've been left out of, I'm completely unaware of them. If anything, it has been a tremendous benefit. And even the ability to talk about sexual content in games, and the ability to study it as much as I have, if it had been a guy saying, "people have a right to use the full range of human experience," he would have been called a sleaze and kicked out of the industry. And I've had way more than one guy point that out. Not that I'm getting away with murder, but it required a woman to be able to talk about this topic. Because if a guy had tried to bring it up, it wouldn't have flown. Just compare -- what are the things people have said about Hugh Hefner over the ages versus what they've said about Christie Hefner? So, it's not just because I'm a woman, but it certainly helps. But I do offer the topic a tremendous amount of respect and I'm certainly not -- I don't shoot off at the mouth about it.

Multiplayer: So you're saying being a woman, just based on appearance, legitimizes what you're trying to say about sex in games, versus if you were a man...

Brathwaite: There's a study of sexuality in every single field, in every single form of media people have studied sexuality. And that's what I was interested in in games. Thank you. I like the term "legitimize."

Multiplayer: Since you do a lot of interviews and you speak at a lot of events, do you feel you have to worry about what you wear more so than your male counterparts? Because I was talking to another female game developer, and she does a lot of interviews and she said, "I try to be neutral. I try not to wear anything low-cut or too short."

Brathwaite: Oh, no I don't do that. Especially because of the "sex in games" thing. The topic needs to be handled responsibly. It is a self-igniting topic, it will blow up all on its own without me pouring any gasoline on it. So if I showed up in four-inch heels and a super low-cut top, that's not going to help it any.

Multiplayer: And just to clear this up: How did people mistakenly think you were a booth babe?

Brathwaite: People would come up to the booth, and you would want to show them the latest games. And so if it was somebody I didn't know, they would often say things like, "Well, can I talk to somebody who actually works here? And I would say, 'Well, I do.'" "But do you actually know about the game?" And there were a couple other women who I worked with as well, particularly this one woman who was really thin and tall and blonde. [Laughs] Nobody ever believed that she was with the company. But she was. And so people would just sort of brush by you. They would just treat you like a booth accessory, which in some respects -- a booth decoration. Which is fine. But when it's your job to talk to somebody about the game, and they come in automatically thinking that they're with somebody who doesn't understand the product, that starts you off at negative two.

Multiplayer: Going to events or conferences, did you ever feel self-conscious being the only female in the room or playing games with men or in front of men?

Brathwaite: Not really. Not really. A long time ago, or even in the -- here's when I started feeling weird. It's if I could play something where I could hear what other people were saying, through TeamSpeak or whatnot. And sometimes people say stuff online that, as a woman, and maybe it affects other people as well, but I think it particularly strikes me because I'm a woman, and I'll hear people say, "Dude, I totally raped you." If you identify yourself or you have a name that identifies you as a woman, sometimes people will say things to you, which is pretty freakin' rude. So I just don't, because I'm online. My gamer tag certainly wouldn't give away that I'm a woman. So, that in fact, has been more recent. That's just, "Give idiots microphones."

There was one thing that I've heard about, it was this guy who went in and I think he called himself "GayBoyXXX" or something like that, and he just went in and played, I think it was "Halo 3." It's on YouTube. And you just listen to the stuff people say to this guy -- holy s--t! The stuff that's been said to me, I can't even hold a candle to that. That is just tragic. Tragic and embarrassing to gamers as a whole. But I've had similar experiences as a woman but nothing that even approaches 1/10 of that degree.

Multiplayer: Why do you think that gamers do that?

Brathwaite: If you're going to pick on somebody, you've got to find the most obvious and easiest thing to pick on, and that's something that's different from what you are -- whether it's your gender or your sexuality. This certainly isn't something that games brought to the forefront. This was something that was happening in the school yard well before games showed up. So this is just yet another outlet for idiocy to come through completely unchecked, because no one's going to come flinging through your Xbox LIVE account and punch you in the face. They're less constrained and more free to be idiots.

Multiplayer: Would you say the same goes for how people reacted to Jade Raymond of Ubisoft? People just wanted to pick on her because…why? She was a woman in one of the lead roles of a high-profile game? What do you think of how people reacted to her on the Internet?

Brathwaite: I'm even trying to remember right now. My brain is completely going blank...

Multiplayer: [I explain the Jade Raymond comic.]

Brathwaite: Oh my God! That's horrifying. I didn't know about that.

Multiplayer: That was what sparked me to do these interviews in the first place. To get women's voices heard and to discuss sexism in the game industry. Do you think that kind of thing would keep women away from working in the industry?

Brathwaite: I think certainly that would discourage women from being the public face of a game. And that in turn doesn't give role models to college students coming up. I know a lot of people now in the industry who would say, "Well, when I was growing up Roberta Williams blah, blah, blah." And Roberta Williams is gone from the industry now, and I'll say "Roberta Williams... You know? 'King's Quest'?" "Oh, right!" But she's lost that sort of allure that she had among many young women. So if people like Jade stand out and say, "Hey look, here's me, I'm in the industry and I'm doing this thing," and they get mercilessly mocked like that… I have no problem being mocked, but that's pushing it. You wouldn't make fun of Peter Molyneux in a similar way. I don't know of a single game developer who hasn't been mocked in some way by a comic but, wow, that is astounding. It's also really personally painful and embarrassing, I'm imagining for her, having that kind of stuff out there. Whether it would keep people from entering the industry... I don't know. If this is something that you've always wanted to do… People behind the scenes who are not the public faces of products, I would be surprised if this would happen to them. But I'm just really shocked and saddened to hear that.

There was that one Kennedy game, "Who Shot JFK?" Or whatever. Frequently people will put out like the "Border Crossing" game. They'll put out these little idiot Flash games, and there was one insensitive dude who put up a game right after the Virginia Tech massacre and he says, "I'll take it down if somebody pays me." Thanks, dude. But meanwhile everybody's pointing fingers at the larger game industry, and we take it in the teeth for this sort of stuff. So I'm hoping that whoever did this… You'll see this all the time. If they have a list of the Top 100 female game developers, there was actually a thread on a site where they rank them by how they look. And this is totally not uncommon. In fact, I have that expectation that if I'm going to be online I will be ranked along with other women. It wouldn't surprise me if somebody sends me an e-mail like, "Have you seen this?" I'm never like, "Oh, my goodness!" Never. But, certainly I've never seen anything to the extent of what happened with her.

Multiplayer: I don't think really anyone has, which is why I think it was a big deal. Why do you think that gamers focus on women in development the way they do?

Brathwaite: I don't know if this is specific to games and gamers. There's been all kinds of things. If you are a woman and you're getting any kind of attention in any kind of media, this is probably going to happen. Go through the aisle of any grocery store and look at the magazines that have Angelina Jolie's face on it. So if you're an attractive woman who's getting media exposure, odds are this is going to happen. I don't know if it's specific to games. I don't think it is, because certainly while I was in high school I can remember guys saying all kinds of dumb things about women then, too. And they didn't have gamer tags and Xbox LIVE accounts to do it. So I don’t know if it's specific to video games.

Multiplayer: I don't think it is either, but I think being that the games industry is pre-dominantly male...

Brathwaite: You know one thing, and I think maybe the sheer quantity of men as compared to women does make it challenging to stand up and say shut up. There's a friend of mine, he's an RN (registered nurse), and I can't imagine if he and another RN at a conference did something that was like this. They would be eviscerated. Can you imagine? If they did something like that, targeting? Because just the sheer numbers. They would be heavily outweighed, and perhaps it's similar to that for women gamers.

Multiplayer: Do you think that there's sexism within the industry? Do you think that's a problem at all?

Brathwaite: Within the industry or among gamers?

Multiplayer: You can speak to both, but I see them as separate.

Brathwaite: Me too, that's why I wanted to know which is which. Within the industry, again, it's hard to say. In my own career, I have not experienced it. I can't speak for other people, but I certainly do know of things that have happened that are phenomenally surprising.

Multiplayer: Do you think the industry still has a long way to go in terms of having more women in the industry and more openness and diversity?

Brathwaite: Well, we absolutely need diversity. And not just diversity of gender, but diversity of cultures, of ethnicity, of sexuality. If we want to reach beyond the audience we have now we've got to bring in more players, and to bring in more players we've got to bring in people who might be able to reach those players. And so that's important, and again it sounds bad to say this, but I don't know this problem of sexism -- you know, women get paid less in all fields right now. So I don't know that it's unique to the game industry. The game industry tends to pay pretty well. But I don't know if you remember, but there was this Breck Shampoo commercial eons ago that said, "If you tell two friends and you tell two friends and you tell two friends... And if there's a job opening at a company and people tell their friends, odds are their friends are going to be guys.

And talking on the diversity front, I have heard people -- this one guy told a story about walking into a company and seeing a picture of Jenna Jameson, fully naked on a wall and doing something exciting. He was gay, and he thought, "What would happen if I brought in a similar picture from a piece of porn that I like? Would that be acceptable? Why should I have to look at this?" So I think the issue is broader than just women. It's a cultural issue, not specifically a game industry issue. Although because many gamers are that 17, 18, 19-year-old level, and here they are on the Internet, and they're able to talk completely unfiltered, it's certainly the easiest place to do flame wars. And you don't even have the option of, "Nah, I'm not going to press the 'send' button." There's no trail. Nobody can go back and play stuff over again. I'm still really shocked by that comic. That's still just amazing.

Multiplayer: What advice do you have to women who have to deal with this scrutiny? Can they avoid it? And then how do women cope if they have any gender challenges within the industry?

Brathwaite: That's a big question. First of all, network with other women. I think that's just phenomenally important. Networking with other women is incredibly important, and we're really tight. In the industry there's a huge group of us. That line I just said, "we're really tight" -- normally I wouldn't even think twice about that, but having said that, my internal monitor showed up and said, "Don't print that, because somebody could absolutely spin that into some sort of horrible comic." That's sad that I even thought that. But networking with a group of women like the IGDA women or the Women's SIG. And there's a lot of men who are part of the Women's SIG, actually. It's an amazing group of people who are united to talk about a particular thing, and to advance that.

I have a lot of hope actually, because I was there at the ground floor, I have seen the industry grow by leaps and bounds over the years. Whereas it could have been me and Sheri [Graner Ray] or me and a few other women, me and Linda. There are now hundreds of women, and that's really heartening. In the classes that I teach at SCAD, I'll often have 25% of the classes made up of women. And it shocks people when I say that. "Are you serious? You have 25% women? Really?" Yeah! And this is in a game design curriculum. And my classes, I'm not looking out across a sea of white people either. I have very diverse classes. And that makes me feel good about the industry and the future.

I would love to see companies like Microsoft and Sony address this issue. It's easy for us to say, "We can't control what people say about us online," and that's very true. That's absolutely the truth. But at the same time we can put some community standards out there and say, "Listen, if you're going through the game going blah blah blah, you can be reported." There could be open play channels where, listen, you want to say whatever the hell you want to say? Great, go here. But if you don't want to do that, then this is the place for you to be. And that might help address some of that. I would like to see some corporate minds tackle that issue, because can you imagine being someone who picked up a game for the first time and hearing that kind of crap? That would be astounding.

Or take a look... One of my favorite ones is "Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance," the PS2 version. Take a look at the start screen of that. You have two guys, a dwarf and a human dressed head to toe, covered in leather. And then you have a woman who's on her way to a stripping engagement. She's got the thigh-high boots and this little booty stocking thing. What is going on there? I don't know how the hell I got on that.

I would recommend that they network, and I feel a lot of hope about the industry. When you go to GDC, make sure to hit the IGDA Women in Games roundtables. And for that matter I'm a huge supporter of the IGDA. The IGDA has put together so many special interest groups that are focused on really making gaming inclusive and a great place to be. I think that's really important to support groups in their effort like that.

Multiplayer: Well to touch on what you said about "Baldur's Gate"... Do you think the way female game characters are portrayed in mainstream games has any effect on the way gamers view women in gaming, and also turning off women from those kinds of games?

Brathwaite: Yes. Here's the thing. I don't have a problem if you have thong outfits and a chain mail thong for a woman in a game, but there should be... First of all, there's no equal opportunity, right? You don't get to see the really hot guy in a game, right? But give players an option. I don't necessarily want to walk around in a game world in a chain mail thong. At the very least give me an option to dress up. It started with Lara Croft, and she was all over the cover of every single magazine in the universe. And then everybody afterwards just started coming up with one after the other in progressively less clothing.

Let me just tangent to "Second Life." What I found really interesting about "Second Life" is this is a virtual world in which players start out with a turtleneck, basically, and jeans. And through nothing the developers have done, but rather community standards, now it's really standard to go in and see lingerie. People are standing around in lingerie and this is something players have done to themselves. So I just find that really interesting from a cultural study standpoint.

So here's one of two anecdotes of how women are addressed in games. Sheri [Graner Ray] in this lecture, she gives has an amazingly great slide of these hyper-sexualized men. And they're not even fully hyper-sexualized. If they were really hyper-sexualized , they'd probably be showing something you wouldn't show in a large auditorium to people. With this hyper-sexualized male characters, I love to look at the audience and watch how they react. The men are like, "Agh, would you get this off?" And the women are pleasantly surprised like," Finally, something for us to look at." And it's always amusing to me to see people's responses to this. And as a gamer who has been a gamer forever, if I see a woman in a thong in a game, honestly I don't even think twice, because I’m so used to it at this point.

And sometimes I'm irritated because if you're running around in a game, and you're half-naked in a game, this is a choice that I may not have personally chosen to look like this to somebody I'm talking to in a game world, but I am. So I'm approaching them as this hyper-sexualized avatar, when I really would have rather approached them as something else. So that doesn't help. So with this hyper-sexualized guys, one thing that I like to think of is, and I’ll point out to the guys—Sheri's loaned me this slide so I can show this in my classes. And when I show this, and I go through Sheri's lecture and I get to this particular slide, I say, "Just imagine, the way you guys felt here, this is how it felt for someone we worked so hard to get and they have finally purchased their first game, and this is what they turn it on and see. Just imagine." And then after this I'll show pictures of women in games alongside their male counterparts, "Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance" being one of my favorite ones. And it's like, doesn't that look silly now that somebody's called your attention to it?

And other games, I can't remember which one now, but there was one -- I don't remember whether it was "Dead or Alive [Xtreme Beach Volleyball]" -- but it went on for two minutes in the clip, and there's still no sign of an actual volleyball. There's breasts and all kinds of jiggle physics and all kinds of stuff going on, but there's no sign of a volleyball. And that's just bizarre. But would it be different if the percentages were reversed, and we didn't have the amount of men making games was instead the amount of women making games? I don't imagine we'd have that kind of stuff.

Multiplayer: Why do you think there aren't more women game developers and gamers right now?

Brathwaite: Well, I don't think it's on the radar for many women, for starters. Certainly when I was growing up… like my daughter's 6 years-old and plans to be a game designer when she grows up. Why? Obviously, she's heavily influenced. I've never said, "Go be a game designer" but she wants to do what Mommy does. And I have other female friends who can tell similar stories. And I think it's a question of having someone out there. Like when people looked at Roberta Williams and said, "Oh, Roberta Williams. Ever since I played her games and found out who she was I wanted to be a game designer." So we need to have that kind of stuff out there. And right now for the most part the people who are out there are men, and so we don't have many female role models who we can say, "Wow , check out this stuff that they've done and look what they're doing in the industry."

When you put up stuff like the comic, or I've seen ads like -- and I won't mention the company -- but there was one ad, it was a recruitment ad... I forget what the ad said, but it had a bunch of guys holding up beers and looking nuts. And it was like, "Do I want to come work for you? Hell no!" [Laughs] It's like, do I want to go work for a frat? And in other really silly but subtle things. Like using "he" in want ads. "The lead candidate, he will have..." And I remember getting one of those ads less than two years ago, and responding to the guy and saying, "I'm sorry, I don't think I qualify because I don't have a penis."And he was the recruiter for the particular company and he managed to get it changed. I don't know if I answered your question, I just went flying off...

Multiplayer: So basically you're saying part of having more women in the industry is having more role models out there and also the industry being more open and more gender neutral?

Brathwaite: Yes. Be more open, be more gender neutral, but I also think it's just truly not on the radar of lots of girls. There comes a time in the life of many, many women, and it usually happens in the early teens, where boys gravitate towards games, and girls tend to go away from games. Now this may not be true of the casual gamerspace. And certainly women like Jessica Tams, who's doing all kinds of stuff with casual games, that kind of stuff helps. Women are overwhelmingly playing tons of casual games, and I can count myself among them. So the answer is, when it comes time to make a decision of what to do, you have this whole group of boys whose brains are just wired to games. Games are these mathematical patterns, and boys tend to gobble these up. And women tend to get away from them. So women would have to make a right turn to head back toward that and to go back in toward gaming.

But we're growing every year, and I just see our curve, the curve that we have made in games, and the amount of women that we have now versus 10 years ago, versus 20 years ago is to me overwhelming and really positive. And if it keeps growing at the same rate, I can see there being some kind of parity 10 years from now. And I really believe that, because it's what I see in my classes and it's also just what I've seen in the industry throughout the years.

Multiplayer: Do you think there's also just an inherent difference between male and female gamers in that we're just not encouraged to pick up games?

Brathwaite: Sheri [Graner Ray] wrote a book called "Gender Inclusive Game Design," and one of the big things she pointed out is we as women and men have, stereotypically speaking, different learning styles. And women in general prefer the modeling learning style. "So, how do you do it? Show me how you do it." Whereas men go, "I don't need directions, I'm not going to stop and ask for those, give me that controller." And in most games, if you look at their tutorials, the way they teach you to play, they're geared towards that risk-taking explorative learning style. And so, often if you sit women down and actually say, "Here, enjoy the game, play the game," they will. But there's also been fascinating studies done where they put a bunch of people in a room and the guys will eventually crowd the women out around the machine. So there's this element of overpowering toward the game, toward the computer.

For the most part, the bulk of games right now, if you look at mainstream, triple-A titles, the bulk of those are geared toward male audiences, like "Madden" and that stuff. But in casual games, we're kicking ass. There's tons of women who play those games. And it's hard to say, if you add all that stuff up, which the larger gaming audience really is. So sure, people might be saying all kids of horrible things on Xbox LIVE while playing "Halo," but there's this whole other gaming world. I'm sure there are restaurants like Hooters, and then there are restaurants like Ruth's Chris Steakhouse. And there are places where you can go and see somebody dance, or you can go and see them dance while they're stripping.

Multiplayer: Can you talk a little bit about your book "Sex in Video Games" and do you think that having more mature themes and openness in games might result in more openness in the gaming community?

Brathwaite: My book is this massive overview of everything there is to know about sex in games, from this whole detailed history of the "Hot Coffee" incident in "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas," to the detailed history of early sex games to the modern history of sex games. And it also includes some hyper-sexualization of characters, and if that's something you want to do, be aware that there are consequences to that, because maybe some people don't want to walk around in a chain mail thong. Okay, maybe it will draw in some people who do, and I've heard, "Well, if you're a guy and you're going to be looking at somebody's butt running around in the world at least it should be an attractive butt." Okay, fine. But at least have options for other people.

As far as having sex in games, there's sex in every form of media, right? And games are under pretty heavy scrutiny right now. People have even talked about removing First Amendment rights from video games, and people have tried to declare them harmful substances and contraband and all kinds of amazing things that just sound absurd by any stretch of the imagination. And I don't think we should have sex in games. But I think we should have the right to have it. Just like in the movie "Sideways" or take "The Sopranos."

What would happen if we removed sex and violence from "The Sopranos"? Would we have had the show that changed television? No, we wouldn't have. And as game developers we're not even close to having a "Sopranos," I'll admit that. We're probably years away from a "Sopranos." We are where movies were in their infancy. They were all about car crashes and dumb violence and stupid suggestive jokes. Okay, we've got a lot of that, but we're coming up as an art form.

And I want to make sure that we have the full range of the human experience to choose from. And the one that people go after the most is sex. That's not true. I shouldn’t say that. That's just in my experience because that's what I'm always defending. People go after sex and violence in games, and while we may never need either extreme, we should have a right to have them. When our storytelling gets to the point where we can do our own "Sopranos," we can do "The Godfather," we can do "Sideways," we can do a "Brokeback Mountain." We should have the full range of human experience. It's an art form like any other art form. For me, that's the importance of preserving it. Not necessarily, people will often point to the extremes. And if I say we have a right to the full range of human experience they'll say, "Brenda Brathwaite wants everybody in games to screw!" Which is not the case. In fact, time and time again, it's been proven that that doesn't make your game sell. In fact, it will often embarrass you off the shelf.

Here's an interesting tidbit about women in games. There are to this day, that I'm aware of, there are still no sex games for women. The only one that's not intentional that I would recommend... People say, if you're a woman where would you go? "Second Life." There’s a large adult community in "Second Life." Not on the teen servers, but on the regular servers.

Multiplayer: You advocate the right for games to have the right to have sex and violence in them in order to facilitate mature themes in storytelling. To play Devil's Advocate, what do you say about games that are overly violent, that portray the Virginia Tech shootings, or say if something as offensive as the Jade Raymond comic was made into a game?

Brathwaite: Wow, well that's one hell of a question. Henry Jenkins from MIT posted something on his blog yesterday... Let me run to my computer and get the exact quote. Hang on a second while I get the exact quote because it just hit the nail on the head. ... His quote was, "As an art form, games deserve constitutional protection. But as artists, game designers have a responsibility to take seriously what they're saying through their work and how that message is being received by their audience."

And when I read that it was like, wow. As artists, we have a responsibility to take seriously. So not just to go, "Yeah, let’s really make this over the top and crazy!" If you were going to do something responsible --- for some reason this quote just really hit me, and I'm sure I've heard something similar before. You know, I could throw a party, and it could [cost] $85,000 and I could invite tons of people, but it would be highly irresponsible and I would probably lose my house in the process. To handle this content, because we are in a position of power that we can use this content to do what we would like to do. As creative artists in any medium, to be aware and to really use that responsibly. And for some reason Professor Jenkins' quote just really hit me.

Multiplayer: So you're saying people should have a right to use sex and violence but at the same time, you would hope they would do it in a way that is contributing to something and not just doing it for shock value.

Brathwaite: Exactly. Not just doing it for shock value. But you could add a ton of extra notes to a piece of music too, or just keep adding random paragraphs, or dropping 37 F-bombs in front of something. But is it really necessary? Just taking responsibility for it. People have argued that there were certain elements in "The Sopranos" that were not necessary. But I really think that properly, I think "The Sopranos" is genius. ... With "The Sopranos," I think that was necessary. I don't know what you would have removed or what you would have added in, I think it was done just perfectly. And we wouldn't have the ability in games right now without going to an AO level is my guess, to have that kind of stuff in a video game to the extent certainly that it is in "The Sopranos." And if we get the gates closed, that bothers me. It really bothers me. It's a tremendous restriction on creative freedom. I want to start with the whole palette. I may never use it, and I never have used it! Certainly I have not made a hardcore sex game.

Multiplayer: But just having the option to if someone were to create something unique and great and different some day, that they are allowed to use sex if they so choose.

Brathwaite: Yeah, and even having the act of people making love or something. We can all think of movies, like "Sideways," there's that hysterical scene when the guy comes running out naked, it's like priceless! Stuff like that. He had the option to have it, and that scene... Still to this day I'll just think about it and it cracks me up. So there's stuff like that. Was it necessary? Maybe it's not necessary. But it was used responsibly and it was hip and it was part of the artist's overall vision.

Multiplayer: But I guess that point will always be arguable, if it's artful or not. Like the guy who made the Jade comic could be like, "Oh, it’s art. It's a political statement."

Brathwaite: True. Absolutely. That's why I would go back to Professor Jenkins' comments. Using it responsibly, and responsibly implies that you're really thinking through what you're about to do when you do it. Just please stop for a second, put down your mouse, and think about what you're about to do. And did this person who created this comic, did this person think through how it would affect this other person? Holy crap, how could you not think of how that would affect somebody? It's phenomenally self-centered. And what if this woman had kids? It doesn't even matter whether she has kids or not. But what if she did? That would compound it. Because as a parent you're like, "Oh, dear God, what about my kids? Go ahead, cut my leg off but spare my kids." Okay fine, it was a statement, great. But was it a statement that was made responsibly? Jenkins is advocating that we take seriously and act responsibly. And that quote just hit me like a ton of bricks yesterday.

Multiplayer: Before you mentioned having women be more visible, and you're obviously out there at conferences. I guess you feel comfortable being a spokesperson for female gamers and developers?

Brathwaite: Well, I feel comfortable talking as a woman and as a game developer. And I do get letters frequently from women who say, "Hey, I heard about you and keep up the good work." So I get that sort of stuff. I'd still like to think I'm fairly approachable. I certainly send a lot of e-mails back. And on my blog if people comment I will almost always comment back to them. As bizarre as it seems, I don't even notice it that much. Because it's always been like this. And I've been in the game industry since I was 15, and I didn't have a real job before I got in the game industry. So honest to God, I don't know anything else. I don't know anything else. It's not an uncomfortable place for me to be in.

It was bizarre right after I started talking about sex in games, and I started doing research on that, because then it was explosive. And despite the fact that I've worked in games for 20 years and made maybe 20 games at that point in time, suddenly it was like massive news. And that I remember feeling like, "Holy crap, who's calling? MTV? What?" That really took me aback for a little bit. But it doesn't so much bother me now. So yeah, I'm comfortable with that and it's been a great career for me. I can't imagine having done anything else and if I had to do it all over again I'd do the exact same thing.

Got thoughts on Brenda Brathwaite’s interview? Let us know! And be sure to check out the other interviews from women working in games. Next up: Tali Fischer, Public Relations Manager at Sega of America.

First, I spoke with two journalists: Morgan Webb of G4's "X-Play" and Jane Pinckard of the blog Game Girl Advance. They both had different perspectives about being a woman working in games. Now, I bring you another female voice in the world of gaming but on the development side: Ubisoft's Elspeth Tory, the project manager for animation on "Assassin's Creed."

I know what you're thinking. With all the hubbub surrounding "Assassin's Creed" producer Jade Raymond, why not talk to Raymond herself? I originally asked Ubisoft to speak with Raymond, but was told by a company rep that she was "not interested at this time." Totally understandable. However, Ubisoft suggested Tory, since she was available and another female able to speak about working on "Assassin's Creed."

I admit that I knew very little of Tory before the interview, but I learned that she was an animator on games such as Microids' "Syberia II" and Ubisoft's "Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones." I didn't know what to expect, but the 29 year-old gamer was very honest about her experiences when we spoke on the phone last week.

Here's an excerpt from when I asked her if she's ever felt uncomfortable in the workplace:

Tory: ... At some point, there was a woman who came in for an interview, and she was an attractive woman, apparently. We had these windows in our meeting room that were high up. And the guys, at some point, I so clearly remember this, they actually got up on their desks to look in on the woman in her interview. And they were making comments. Like, that was the kind of working environment that I was in. It wasn't all the time, but it was ridiculous! ... This was at Microids when that happened. I specifically remember it, and I was so disappointed. ...

Make the jump to read more of Tory talking about doubting herself, having to do well for womankind, and the comments made about her co-worker...

Multiplayer: How did you get started in the industry?

Tory: Initially, I did my Bachelor's in English Literature and Ethics, which is of course a natural progression into gaming. [Laughs] I finished that and by then, I'd always been working on animation on the side -- drawing and computer graphics -- and I really loved that. So by the time I finished I decided that it would be worth doing a course in computer animation just to see if I was any good at it before becoming a lawyer. [Laughs] Which I didn't end up doing.

I took this seven-month program up in Montreal, and from there I went to work straight for Microids, because they were hiring. I'd always loved video games, so that was certainly appealing to me. But when you come out as an animator, you can work in gaming or in advertising or TV, but gaming seemed to hold the most, in terms of stability, was the most stable industry. Plus they have that really cool mix of artistic and tech. So if you're someone like me who likes problem-solving, then gaming is hugely appealing. Plus it just seemed like a really, really creative environment with lots of new challenges. So that's how I ended up there.

I was at Microids for three and-a-half years, and then I left for Ubisoft, and then a month later Ubisoft bought Microids. [Laughs] I've been in the industry I guess six and-a-half, seven years now.

Multiplayer: What was your position at Microids?

Tory: I started off as an animator. I was an animator on "Syberia II," and then I became lead animator on a game called "Still Life."

Multiplayer: I loved "Syberia." And so then you transitioned over to Ubisoft...

Tory: Oh, cool! Yeah, I transitioned to Ubisoft, and initially I wanted to start back as an animator just to kind of learn the ropes. That may be a confidence issue which may have to do with being a woman, I'm not sure. I was insecure about starting here and I didn't necessarily want to jump right into a lead position. So I worked as an animator on "Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones," which was an amazing project to work on. So cool. And after that I really felt pretty confident again so I decided to apply for a lead position again, and that's when there was an opening on "Assassin's" for the project manager for animation, which is purely a management position, just because there's so much to organize. So I ended up going onto that and was on that for two years. The longest project I've been on. But it was great. It was a difficult adjustment at first just because it was such a high level of quality and so much data and people to manage. But it was such an amazing project to work on.

Multiplayer: Can you talk a little bit more about the confidence issue you had?

Tory: I think, having talked to some of my female friends, it almost feels like often we need to -- and this may just be lack of experience in general in any industry -- but feeling the need to prove yourself before getting rewarded, as opposed to knowing that you're good enough and going in saying, "I know I can do this" and just taking the job. I think, at least initially, I always felt like I sort of had to go in and prove myself and say, "You know what, I can do this. See, I can do it." And then people would be like, "Oh yeah, she can do it." And then they'd give me the okay to move up the ladder. Whereas I think a lot of other people -- and I don't know if this is a guy/girl thing -- would be confident enough to step in there and say, "You know what, I know I can do this and I don't need to prove myself first. I'm just going to take the job and then prove myself while doing it." So that's something I've learned in general, that it's better to just take the plunge and go do that. But it certainly was a bit intimidating at first, I think. If I'd jumped from a small company to a big one as a lead, I don't know how well that would have been taken. I'm sure I could have done it, now. I know I could have. But there was that initial hesitation.

Multiplayer: In you career, do you think that being a woman has posed any challenges you don’t think men would have faced?

Tory: I do feel like, initially I really had to prove myself to be taken seriously. And it's really at the beginning. It was in the first two years, just trying to get in there and to be taken seriously. Again, I don't know if it's specifically related to being a woman or just being new in the industry, but I think it was more difficult at first than it would have been for a guy coming in. I really do genuinely think that. But once you're in and you've done a game or two and you've proven yourself, you're like, "Wow, okay, I can do it." And then once you get past that, I don't think it's as much of an issue now. In the people we're hiring now, gender is never an issue. I've even been on projects where they want to have more women on to balance it out, like if it's in the casual game section, which Ubisoft is really pushing with the "Games for Everyone." So there's really a push to try to get more women on the teams.

So I think that that's something, again, that had to do more with the youth of the industry and the fact that it was a little more immature, and you had immature people hiring you and immature people running things at times. You did sort of feel like, "Come on… take me seriously for once." [Laughs] But once you prove yourself, again, it's just that notion that you always to kind of do that one little extra step. But I really find that the industry's grown up a lot in the past five years.

Multiplayer: What kind of extra steps did you have to take to prove you were capable?

Tory: I had to show that I was technical. I mean, again, this may just be me personally, but I had to show that I could just do everything. I could problem-solve, I could fix things. It's almost as if, because there are so few women, I didn't want to let the women down. If there are very few women, you're almost like the person who is forging the path, right? If you do a good job they're going to be more likely to say, "This is great, we need more women." So I think there's this pressure -- it's maybe a bit self-imposed -- where you really feel like you want to show them that you're not bad at this. And it's really, really important not to screw up. So I really felt an incredible pressure to try and -- that's maybe the proving myself that I'm talking about. Just to let them know that I can do this, I am this good, I can really make this happen, and you're not going to be disappointed. So that was really a big, big push in my first years in the industry, just to make sure that they understood that I'm really good at this and I'm not going to let you down. Whereas I don't know if a guy would put that pressure on himself -- whereas as a woman, you're pretty conscious of it.

Multiplayer: Would you say that there external pressures as well as internal pressures that made you feel that way?

Tory: I don't know if it was so much external. I think it was maybe my experience in the industry, and just that I'd only been in there for a few years. And in the back of your mind you're always saying, "Oh, there must be people that are more qualified than me to do this." I think it's the fact that we’re also a very young industry, so we sort of assume, "I've only got three years of experience, I couldn't possibly be qualified to do this." But at the end of the day, you actually know it better than a lot of other people. So I don't think it's necessarily external pressure, just external experience and seeing people maybe not do a great job, or seeing people have trouble and thinking, "Oh, I might have the same problem." And just not being confident enough to know you can do it.

Multiplayer: You may have doubted yourself, but do you feel that people in general have different expectations of you because you're a woman?

Tory: It's funny, I think initially when I started in the industry, that was probably the case. People were generally surprised if I could technically problem-solve. But now, yeah, I really don't find that. I find it's just -- people are known as being good at X, Y or Z and that just precedes you, and it's not an issue anymore. I think initially I did feel like, "Okay, I really have to do this to prove myself." But once you've been somewhere for a while, everyone knows what you can do. So it's kind of nice. You just know you can do it, people know you can do it. And every new project, for sure, every time you start a new project, everyone has to prove themselves again on some level. Because you're usually with a different producer, you're with a different team, everything switches up. So that's good, it keeps you on your toes. So that's not necessarily unique to women in the industry. Every time you start a new project you have to push a little harder and be like, "Here I go again." So I've kind of gotten over that whole lack of confidence.

I think there have been enough women in the industry now that there really isn't any pressure as a woman to prove yourself anymore. I think there has been so many great people out there doing things that right now, I think it's completely open-ended. Anyone who comes in, you just want to know that they're good. Their gender is irrelevant. I don't think there are those expectations anymore. The trail has been blazed; it's established. There just aren't that many women in the industry, but everybody knows that they're just as capable and that's not an issue. Everybody's had experiences with good people so they know we're all capable of doing it. I don't think it's as much of an issue now as it was. I think it's just a fact that the industry has been getting more mature and older and more women have established themselves in this industry and done a really good job so I don't think it's as much of a problem now so much as it was initially, when it was really a boys' club and it was really, really limited to guys. I'm really happy with the progress that's been made.

Multiplayer: Speaking of the boys' club, did you ever feel that you were treated differently in the workplace because you're a woman?

Tory: Actually, there was one story that was so bizarre. At some point, there was a woman who came in for an interview, and she was an attractive woman, apparently. We had these windows in our meeting room that were high up. And the guys, at some point, I so clearly remember this, they actually got up on their desks to look in on the woman in her interview. And they were making comments. Like, that was the kind of working environment that I was in. It wasn't all the time, but it was ridiculous!

Multiplayer: And where was this?

Tory: [Laughs] This was at Microids when that happened. That was one instance. I specifically remember it, and I was so disappointed. That just gives you an idea of the age of the people I was working with.

Multiplayer: Do you think you were just so chummy with these guys, and they felt so comfortable that they could do these things in front of you?

Tory: Yeah, maybe I was just one of the guys. I think they slot you into a camp. You're either… again, these are initial things when you start off in the industry. Some of the ways that I tried to make myself part of the gang was like playing video games at lunch. That's a great way to break down that barrier and be like, "I'm just one of the guys here, I'm just playing with you, I do everything that you guys do." So I think you just have to push a little harder to make sure that they get you’re somebody who understands gaming, who likes to play, just to sort of break down that stereotype.

Multiplayer: I have been in some of the same situations. But it's like, although I speak "Guy," I'm still a girl.

Tory: [Laughs] That's a good way to describe it. You know how it works…

Multiplayer: I mean, I definitely have a sense of humor, but sometimes I don't want to hear some of these things...

Tory: I know, I know. And that's the stuff. If they get too comfortable, then you hear conversations like that. And you think, aren't we really beyond this? But I think that’s so much better at a big company. I think there's a lot less of that at a big company.

Multiplayer: There's probably more diversity at a bigger company. Not to mention a huge HR department.

Tory: Exactly. And I just don't think it would happen now; the industry's much older and more mature. So, I do feel the difference between a small company and a big one. Though I had an amazing time. It was such an amazing family, and I totally got along. There are just times where you're just like, "Uch." You know? And you can't get away from it because it's people on your team...

Multiplayer: I'm sure they didn't even realize it.

Tory: No, they were just being themselves. Literally, the fact that they were doing it in front of me shows that I was just one of the boys. "Hey, check out the chick in the meeting room." Like, what? What are you doing? We're working here. But yeah, I'm glad that things are so much better now. If anything, in terms of doing all sorts of things in the gaming industry now, I think there's a real push to try to get more women out there and to get more women as the spokespeople for games. And for certain things it's worked in my favor to get more publicity. I got to go on a tour for "Assassin's." I think the game industry's very conscious there aren't many women, and they're really trying to push to encourage that. I'm glad there's been a flip.

Multiplayer: Your job on "Assassin's Creed" was to manage the animators. How many women were on your team?

Tory: One. [Laughs] Just one out of 14, I think in total. So it wasn't that bad. I would have loved to have more, but sometimes it's just coincidence. I think usually there are more women in animation than in, let's say, programming. But there happened to only be one on this one.

Multiplayer: Was it weird, with you in your management role, telling a group of mostly men what to do?

Tory: Yeah, I didn't find that to be too much of a problem, because I'd been a lead before at Microids, and it was all guys. So I wasn't surprised by that. I think it’s just... you're nervous about your first day on the job and you come in. Yeah at that point, when I started, I was the only woman in the room, so that was a little intimidating. [Laughs] I think that's just more to do with starting a new job and having a lot of responsibility on the biggest game that Ubisoft is putting out, and having a lot of talented people who are expecting you to do a really good job. So I just kind of threw myself into it and I said, "I can do it. I know I can do it." And you know what? It was fine. It was actually okay. So it was a little intimidating just because the expectations were so high, but I didn't find that anyone had made me feel like I couldn't do it. I really felt like I had a lot of support. I felt really comfortable stepping into the job apart from my own small insecurities about the fact that it was such a big project.

Multiplayer: So you never felt any resentment at all in any of your positions as a woman in a management role overseeing men?

Tory: It's funny. I'd say I have in the past and when I was in the smaller company, there were certainly incidents. Not necessarily with animators, but with other teams, where you're trying to defend your team. I'd say that's where you sometimes get into conflicts. But never with the animators themselves. I find generally they're really great, very understanding, very accepting, accommodating. I think there's a really good flow of information that was flowing between animators and their leads and in general, there's a good relationship there and I did not feel any different as their lead. Sometimes with other departments you'd run into problems, but I think those are maybe problems that would have been there regardless. And that was really just in the beginning of my career.

I think when the industry was younger, when people in general were younger -- five, six years ago -- a lot of the people I was working with were 23 year-old guys. And I can really, really feel the difference now that everybody's getting a bit older. We're all getting better at what we do, and I think people are more mature. So that may just have to do with the maturity of the industry. I don't feel any tension on that level at all right now. And I didn't feel it at all on "Assassin's."

Multiplayer: To be clear, in those previous conflicts, did you feel any of those were based on your gender?

Tory: It's hard to tell. Some of them, yeah, I think some maybe guys have issues with women telling them what to do. I think there's probably some of that involved with it. It was very rare, and it was probably a few people you run into every once in a while who were problematic. But usually those people didn't last long in the industry because they had attitude problems to start with. As I said it wasn't usually my employees who had problems. Generally, you'd run into other people in other departments who were difficult. They had problems and they don't usually last long. I think most companies are usually pretty good at filtering out people who have issues. Fortunately it probably hasn't been very frequent, and I would say it was sort of isolated in the beginning of my career with certain people who just really shouldn't have been there in the first place.

Multiplayer: Just curious: how many women work at Ubisoft as a whole? Though that might be a PR question...

Tory: I think the percentage is 20% out of 1,500. It would be interesting to see how many of the women are in production because I know a lot of the women are in HR in the building itself, but in terms of production you’ll find there are a lot of women in lead positions at Ubisoft. We have a lot of women producers, like three that I can think of right off the bat. We have a lot of female project managers for animation in particular. That's when I find it will be interesting at the lead meetings, or when we have a gathering or event, you'll actually see a lot of women, proportionally. So that's good, at least. Even if our numbers are small, if we're more kind of high profile, I think that’s pretty good.

[Note: PR later told me that in 2006/2007 fiscal year ending March 31, women represented 20% of Ubisoft's worldwide staff. Their report also said that women accounted for 39% of senior management and 41% of business personnel.]

Multiplayer: What would you say that the advantages and disadvantages are of being a woman in the industry?

Tory: Well, the advantages... I don't know if it's necessarily advantages, apart from the fact that, as I said, there's this sort of push to get more women in the industry. Just from my very personal perspective, I think the fact that I was a woman, and I was doing this triple-A game, I think it was good to be able to show me as a spokesperson for the game. I think that helped. I'm articulate too, so I'm not going to say that wasn't part of it as well. But I think it's neat to be able to have women go out there and promote a game, especially if we had important roles on the project. So I think ["Assassin's Creed"] was a neat opportunity for me. I'm sure on some level it would have happened eventually, but I think for this particular project, it certainly helped to get me out there. I got to travel a little bit and meet with a lot of journalists. So, on that level, that's an advantage. I don't think there are necessarily lots of other advantages. [Laughs] I think it's really unique to right now that maybe there's this push to try and promote us.

Multiplayer: Especially since it's a growing industry that's mostly male. It would obviously be some sort of advantage to be remembered.

Tory: Exactly. And this happens in a lot of different industries, for sure. But I wouldn't say it's necessarily an advantage to be a woman in the gaming industry right now. I'd say it's about even. But since there is that push for more women, I think that women have just as much opportunity to get in now as men, and I think that's great. Disadvantages.. Sort of like the ones I was talking about earlier. The whole notion of trying to get into a boys' club and being one of the guys, and how do you bond with a group of people when you don't necessarily want to go out for beers with them every Friday night? It's not as obvious, in terms of how to fit in with the group. But I think you find ways to make it happen. Like I know on some projects, if there's guy and there's a bunch of guys on his team, they'll go out for beers every Friday night. I'm not necessarily going to be doing that with my team. I'll go out for sure, but maybe we'll go out just to do something else or something that would work better for a team of mixed men and women. Like going to see an animated movie if it's relevant to our animation skills. I think you really have to try to find new ways to bond with your team, which a guy wouldn't necessarily have a challenge with. Not that I can't go out for beers with my team, I can certainly do that. Trying to find ways to make it more inclusive for everybody that aren't sort of in the stereotype. You really have to be creative, I guess.

Right now, I don't know if there are any main disadvantages. You come onto the team and you're the only girl, it's a little less obvious. You just try to become buddies with everybody. But at the same time I don't think it's any kind of barrier. You just have to get creative about how you get to know people, like playing video games with them, or trying to organize team activities. At least as a manager, that's what I try to do, too. We had a pool night. As I said, we only had one other woman on the team so it wasn't as much of an issue, but it's important to try to get people to get to know each other quickly and just become friends so that barrier's gone.

Multiplayer: One disadvantage I can think of is that people can doubt your abilities. When I was interviewing Morgan Webb, she said that guys still come up to her and ask, "Do you really play games?" And in Jade Raymond's case, people were doubting her work experience...

Tory: There's a real difference, I find, between what you experience internally, in the company, and what you feel from the outside on the forums, which are ridiculous. The stuff on forums is ridiculous. It's so misogynistic, and it's awful. And so I really try to separate myself from that. I find at least internally, the industry itself, when we talk about the actual companies and our working environment, I feel it's a lot better, and I feel there’s a decent amount of respect going on there. But when you want to step outside, it's exactly what you’re saying. Experienced producers like Jade, who was a programmer, is a huge gamer, really somebody who knows what she's talking about. And people say, "Are you just a marketing tool?" And it's just like, "What are you talking about?" So I think on that level, I don't know if that's calling it the industry, or just the demographic who are playing are just not getting it.

Multiplayer: So it seems that you're saying with gamers -- or outside the industry -- there's the negativity, but within the industry, it's not like that at all?

Tory: Totally. Things have not gotten better outside the industry. For me, the important thing is in my working environment everybody gets taken seriously, and I am not in any way impeded in my progression. So that's really important to me. On "Assassin's" I started getting more exposure. You do an interview on GameTrailers, and you start getting comments. I was told to never go look at the comments, because they're appalling!

But [being in the spotlight] has been an eye-opening experience for me. The forums in general, and basically all the websites that include all of these people who are really condescending and, I don’t know... It leaves a sour taste in your mouth. You just kind of feel like we're making progress, we're getting more women out there, the faces of the games are changing, and I think that's so good. And then any time you put a woman in the position where she's talking about things, there has to be at least a good chunk of talk about, for Jade, talking about how beautiful she is. Completely irrelevant to what's going on and her job.

Multiplayer: Why do you think people reacted to Jade that way on the Internet?

Tory: It was really frustrating... The whole fan club thing, I think that's fun and whatever. To me it's just when they start criticizing her intelligence or her ability... It's very frustrating to see that when you've worked with somebody for two years, and you know they're good at what they do and they're competent. I've found that she's been an amazing role model for me, and to have people sit there and just, without any prior knowledge essentially, and truly because she's a woman and she's pretty, to rip into her. And to sort of imply that she couldn't possibly have any idea what she's doing. I think that's a bit immature. It's the kind of thing you expect from a 12 year-old. And maybe it is 12 year-olds making the posts. It could very well be. And if that's possible, it's not something I should worry about, because it's just a 12 year-old making the posts. But it's just the kind of thing that is not encouraging and doesn't necessarily encourage other women to go in when they see that kind of flack. And I don't know if there are a lot of other industries where a woman would get that kind of flack. If a woman was directing a movie, would there be that kind of feedback? Possibly. There are probably a lot of people who just don't like women creating. ... I'm sure it's not most of them. I'm sure there's a good chunk of people out there who are playing games who respect women.

Multiplayer: I feel like with the Internet, there are 100 people who like you and then there's maybe 10 who don't, but the 100 people don't feel the need to comment at all, while the 10 who hate you do...

Tory: Yeah. Like, "You bitch! Why are you talking?" Someone even made fun of my Canadian accent. He said it's -- I shouldn't even say it. I remember, he said, "Stop saying aboot, bitch." I'm like, wow. Isn't that crazy? It's a forum, right? So it's completely anonymous. And there's a lot of stuff. I remember at some point I did an interview, I can't remember what site it was on, but there was something like, "Who would you rather do, Jade or Elspeth?" And that was really bad. That was there for a few days and then it was gone. But that's the kind of thing that, obviously as a guy, you'd never have to put up with.

Multiplayer: How did you feel about having something like that posted about you?

Tory: I thought it was just really immature, and it was frustrating. I'm glad it was taken down, but it's the kind of thing that doesn't... I want other women to come into the industry, I want them to feel comfortable, I want them to feel like this is a really great environment to work in. And it is. But there's this whole other side that comes with it, which is once you're in the public eye, and if you're working on high-profile games -- and that's more and more the case -- it's tough for people to genuinely believe that -- I don't know -- they don't believe what you do. It's just the forums. It's probably a really good idea to just disregard the forums, but I'm sure a lot of people you've talked to have experienced it too with journalists or people asking them silly questions. I don't know. I would just wish that this weren't the case, because I want more women to feel comfortable coming into the industry, and I don’t know if they're going to feel comfortable if there's always this kind of turmoil.

Multiplayer: Do you think that's partly why there are not as many women in game development?

Tory: I don't know why there aren't that many women coming into it right now. I'm just hoping the message is just getting out that we're here, and we're involved. And there are so many women gamers too, at all different levels. They're not all necessarily playing the hardcore games, but they certainly play. I mean, a lot of women play "The Sims" games. I think it's also a very stable industry, which to me is very appealing. If you ever want to have a family, there's that stability. It's a full-time job, as opposed to doing contract work in animation or in other things. So I don't know why the message isn't quite getting out yet. I am starting to see more women coming in. Like the project I'm currently working on, which I can't actually talk about, but it's a casual game and we have at least 35% women on the project, and that's fantastic. It's kind of a neat change. So I'm hoping that that trend is going to continue. But yeah, I don't know. I'd love to hear the stats on if the numbers are growing or not. I imagine that they are, though.

Multiplayer: Do you think stuff on the Internet, like the Jade comic, would really turn women off from working in the industry?

Tory: I don't know if it would. It shouldn't turn people off. If anything, it should turn people into coming to work for us to try and change things, to get more women in here. I think if anyone sees that kind of stuff -- I mean, it may turn them away, and I really hope it doesn't. But I hope that if they see that and they see the ridiculous comments that are being made -- it's typical I think of any industry where it's new to have women in it. I'm sure that 20 years ago when other women were forging the way in other industries, they were getting that kind of flack, initially. "Oh, what's she doing? She shouldn't been running this show!" [Laughs] So I'm sure it's just the way that things go and it takes time for people to adjust to seeing women in different roles, in particular in this industry which seems so stereotypically male. So I'm just hoping that if they see it, they'll think, "Okay, I need to get there, we need to change this. We need to get more women in here and just stop this now."

Multiplayer: Why do you think gamers focus on women in the gaming industry the way they do? Do you think that gamers are just so unfamiliar with seeing attractive women developing games?

Tory: I think some of them probably love it. I think some of them love the articles and love hearing about it. I think there are certain people, probably a small group, who probably are active on the forums, who just don't like the idea that -- I don't know -- that a woman was in charge of their game that they love. I don't know. There's just a lot of anger out there, and maybe that's just teenage angst and they’re directing it towards somebody because she's up there and she's very visible. That's the other thing, too. Since we're so online, I think it's easy for people to get access, to make comments, without any consequences, necessarily. As you said, they probably wouldn't say that kind of stuff in-person. So it may just be the nature of our industry that we're very online.

Multiplayer: And women are so new to the industry. And if you're very attractive, people want to say stuff about it.

Tory: Exactly. And that just may be the Internet, right? You put up a video on YouTube, you get tons of comments. You get people saying idiotic stuff. I mean, it sucks. That's just one of the unfortunate things about certain parts of the Internet is that you get this ability to completely release all your criticism without any consequences necessarily, and without even really thinking about it. I don't know, is that person actually, really a misogynist? I don't know. I mean it feels like it when you read some of the comments. It's really surprising and you're just saying, "Wow, it's really unfortunate that someone would say that kind of stuff." I think right now in the game industry, there's a real push to try to promote the women who are involved and to try and figure out what is -- kind of like your articles. What is going on for women? Right now there is that aspect of promoting certain people in a very particular way. I'm hoping that we get over that. If we do it will mean that things are a little better. It'll mean it's more normal to have a woman running the show.

Multiplayer: When you go on interviews, like going on tour for "Assassin's," do you feel self-conscious about what you're wearing? Do you feel like you have to put more thought into what you wear?

Tory: I kind of do, and I definitely think that that's something that women will be more conscious of because of that publicity factor, where you know that people are going to focus on your appearance. A lot more than with a guy. They wouldn't care. They'd be like, "Oh, nice hat."

Multiplayer: Men could just wear a T-shirt and pants.

Tory: It totally doesn't matter. But women, for sure, I'll admit to that. Being more paranoid about what I was wearing. It would be like, "Okay, I can't wear that, I have to make sure I wear this," and try not to give off the wrong impression. You have to be neutral.

Multiplayer: I feel like guys would never really have to think about that.

Tory: I don't think that they do. I think that is a huge difference.

Multiplayer: So do you think, "Oh, I can't wear that, it's a little too low-cut"?

Tory: Yeah, or do you put on makeup, do you not put on makeup? How do you do your hair? And everything you do, the way that you present yourself is going to be scrutinized by everyone watching that. So for sure, I think it's something we have to think about a lot more than guys do. Because of this negative feedback that comes back. So generally I go more conservative so people wouldn't say anything about it.

Multiplayer: You almost can't avoid it, no matter what. I mean, they made fun of your accent, and you can't change that.

Tory: Yeah, so far no comments on the clothes, thank God. I've managed to avoid that.

Multiplayer: So in general, what do you think women in the industry can do to overcome sexism?

Tory: Well, as I said in the industry itself, within work, I think a lot of those barriers have been broken down and we just need to continue to push up the ranks to get into higher positions, to be more visible, and I think that's already starting and I hope that continues. So internally I'd say that's the thing. If you're already in the gaming industry, push to become more visible. Push your skills, become the expert. Be that person that shows everyone that we're pretty kick-ass and that we need more of us.

Externally, it's a tough call. Once we start appealing to a broader audience, I think the casual games -- for sure big companies are trying to appeal to a wider bracket, so that they can sell more games. And the Wii, I think, has done a lot for that. Once that audience is broader I think that'll really change the perception, let's say. Because it's not just a bunch of 12 year-old guys in their basement, and maybe the comments will be more muted, and maybe there would be articles or journalists or people reviewing this stuff who are going to be more conscious of the audience that's going to be reading it. So maybe there would be less appeal to writing about how "hot" somebody is, because that just wouldn't be appropriate in the real world. [Laughs]

Multiplayer: You talk about how women should be become more visible. You've obviously become more visible by working on "Assassin's Creed." Do you feel like you should be a spokesperson for women developers and gamers?

Tory: Well, I don't know, a spokesperson so much. You just get that feeling that sometimes when people have stereotypes that if you come along and reinforce it, it just makes things infinitely worse. So let's say that a lot of guys think, "I don't know if a woman can do that well." Let's say that's what they thought initially. And then you come along and, [they realize] "Hey, you do it well." So I think that I really felt that pressure to just make sure that every time, if anyone had a stereotype, that I broke it. And that’s something that I think it was important for me to do, just as a personal quest, to make sure that any other woman who came along, that that stereotype wouldn't be there. At least the last woman they worked with was good at what they do, and they know that it wasn't going to be an issue. I didn't want anyone else to face potentially the same stereotype.

Multiplayer: When disparaging stuff comes out on the Internet, what advice do you have for women dealing with that type of scrutiny?

Tory: Don't read the forums! [Laughs] Don't read the forums. That's what I was told by some people and I stopped doing that, so that's good. That's helping. And try and focus on the positive aspect of what you do and the end result. I think it's tough to know what to do. Do you react against it? Do you sort of say things verbally? Again, I think it's more about visibility. So if people are having issues, well then we're just going to go out there and make more games that are kick-ass and more games where there is a woman running it and more games where we're doing a great job. I think it's just going to have to eventually erode. It'll just eventually come to an end, and it'll be completely normal to have high-profile women on big projects.

Even on "Assassin's" it is becoming normal. We had a female producer, we had two or three female leads on the project. We had a lot of women on the team, maybe not specifically in animation, but I think that's already one step forward. In game design, it's just going to start happening, and it would be great if that happened sooner rather than later. For specific things to do, I think it's just try and push in the direction we're going in, which is becoming more visible, and the rest will follow.

Got thoughts on Elspeth Tory's interview? Let us know! And check back later to see more interviews from women working in games. Next up: Brenda Brathwaite, game designer and author of "Sex in Video Games."

Webb's interview is part of Multiplayer's special week-long series called "Women Working in Games." A few weeks ago, I decided to speak to a few prominent women in gaming to find out about their personal experiences working in the male-dominated field.

Aside from Webb, another woman that I really wanted to talk to for my set of interviews was Jane Pinckard of Game Girl Advance. For years, Pinckard has written and talked about gender and games, and she recently wrote what I thought was a passionate and thought-provoking entry about all the attention surrounding "Assassin's Creed" producer Jade Raymond. In it, she captures the anger, frustration, sadness and ambivalence that I -- and perhaps other people -- have felt about gender issues in gaming, which seems to have come to a head once again.

On November 29, I called Pinckard while she was at the Montreal International Game Summit to talk about gender in the gaming space. Here's a tidbit from our conversation, where she mentions the sexualized Jade Raymond comic when we talk about the kind of comments women can get:

Pinckard: The whole Jade Raymond comic thing to me... it's a super big deal, and it's terrible. And if you are a woman, let alone Jade -- that comic affected me as a woman. I saw that, and I was like this is an attack on me and on you and on all of us. And the thing is the guys just didn't get it. They were like, "What? It's the Internet. Don't take it so seriously" and that kind of thing. … some people really didn't get it.

Read on for more of Pinckard's thoughts on Lara Croft, Ubisoft and what women can do to thrive and survive in the video games industry...

Jane Pinckard didn't intend to go into video game journalism. But in 2002, the now 34 year-old started her gaming blog mainly because she wasn't finding anything she wanted to read about games. "The reason my blog is named 'Game Girl Advance' is because I was really into the Game Boy, the Game Boy Advance," Pinckard told me. "I loved that thing, and I carried it everywhere with me. But I was like, 'Why does it have to be Game Boy Advance? Why do they assume that it's going to be for a boy?' And that really annoyed me. I said to myself, 'They should call it Game Girl Advance,' and I was like 'That’s a great name for a blog!'"

From there, she began writing for magazines like GamePro and Xbox Nation, and worked at Ziff Davis and the CMP Game Group. She's currently freelancing and writing posts on Game Girl Advance, though she's about to start a job in business development for a video game studio (she declined to name the company at the time).

Multiplayer: Throughout your work, do you think that being a woman has posed any challenges to you that you don’t think men would have faced?

Pinckard: Yeah, I have to say it's challenges and opportunities, to be frank. Because -- and I've written a little bit about this before -- if you're a woman in a male-dominated field, you're naturally going to stand out. And that's good and bad. It's good, because people remember you, and you're noticeable. And when you go to a conference of 3,000 people, and there's only 50 women, you're one of them. And they're like "Oh, you're the girl." And it's bad, because they say "Oh, you're the girl," and they tend to not know anything else about you except that you are the girl. And that can be challenging to overcome, because there's this perception that if you are "the girl" then you must speak for all women. And so they're going to ask you like, "Well, I want to design a game for women. So we’re asking you, one woman, what should we do?" [Laughs] And that's ridiculous.

There's also sometimes a perception that you got to where you are because you are a woman. And that can be a bit tough, too. And then there's just the challenge of working in a male-dominated field, where you're just working with a bunch of boys. And I'm sure you've maybe experienced this too, where there's a huge gender imbalance in the workplace. And there are some serious things about sexual harassment and stuff like that that do happen. I personally have not experienced that, but there's just moments where you're like, "God, you guys are just a bunch of boys. Grow up!"

I think my favorite type of workplace is the gender-balanced workplace. I don't know exactly, but I think there have been studies that show that those tend to be more productive and more progressive and all that good stuff. So I think one of either gender's too much. And then there's some more serious things too, like I've been called lots of names. When I write about controversial things on my blog I've been accused of setting feminism back ten years. I'm like "Wha?" [Laughs] Just things like that. I think that's also just the nature of the Internet. The Internet is full of people who like to proclaim these kinds of things about other people without knowing you at all.

Multiplayer: Some people would argue that guys who write for Kotaku get the same amount of flack. Do you feel that you get a little bit more because you're a woman games blogger?

Pinckard: The feminism thing, well that hurt, because I'm a feminist -- come on now, people! But I think they get the same amount of flack, like you read their comments and they're like "Brian Crecente, you idiot!" But I think that women are subject to sometimes a different quality of comments…

Multiplayer: That are more appearance-based?

Pinckard: Yeah, and more sexualized comments as well. The whole Jade Raymond comic thing to me... it's a super big deal, and it's terrible. And if you are a woman, let alone Jade -- that comic affected me as a woman. I saw that, and I was like this is an attack on me and on you and on all of us. And the thing is the guys just didn't get it. They were like, "What? It's the Internet. Don't take it so seriously" and that kind of thing.

Multiplayer: Yeah, I read some comments that said, "Oh if were her, I’d be flattered." How is that flattering in any way?

Pinckard: Yeah, some people really didn't get it. ... I think a lot of men don't get it. I interviewed recently at another game development job, which was all guys. And they were great guys, and they really wanted women on the core design team and all that good stuff, but there were still some things about their attitude where they would joke about like ,"Oh yeah, we're like an HR disaster waiting to happen!" And I'm like, "I get you guys, but if you really want to hire more women you've got to straighten up." You can't run it like a club house. Women just don't feel safe and comfortable in that kind of environment. And so I think the industry needs to do a lot more to -- and maybe it's just maturing and growing up a little and not allowing these kinds of dorm room attitudes to pervade. Because frankly I don't think women are going to stick around for that kind of stuff.

Multiplayer: Right. Though I do feel like a lot of women who work in a male-dominated workplace can and do have a certain sense of humor, but then sometimes it can go too far. And some guys aren’t really sensitive to that. So where do you draw the line? Because you still want to have people be themselves and be able to joke around but not step over that line...

Pinckard: Yeah, I think that's a really good point. That's a huge challenge, because a lot of the game industry -- the reason it's fun is because there's a certain looseness in the attitude. And that's not like the financial world, and it's not like working at IBM. And if it were, it would be a lot less fun and not as interesting and creative. And I think that's true anytime you get a bunch of creatives together. Creatives tend to be a little bit more like loose cannons maybe than other types. And that's all good but at the same time, yeah, you're right, you have to foster this sense of deep respect for your colleagues, including your female colleagues. And everyone has to have that. Everyone has to internalize that. And once that's there I think there's more room for jokes. And I certainly know women who make lots of jokes, including sexual jokes, off-color jokes, whatever, and it's all within this context where they feel safe, and it's okay. But then when you don't have that context, then you're not going to feel safe, and you're not going to want to participate.

Multiplayer: When you mentioned you were going for different jobs, and they told you they wanted women on their core team, did you feel weird when they said that to you?

Pinckard: A tiny bit, but they were also very clear about why they wanted women. So I think it's all about motivation. Like do they want me because they want a Jade Raymond effect? Do they want a pretty spokesperson? Or do they want me because they realize that they want to design a game that also appeals to women so they need to hire more women? If being a woman is the only qualifying metric that they use, then that's stupid. They're not going to get anywhere, and I hope that people don't hire that way, because that's ultimately setting women up for more failure. You hired an incompetent but pretty person as a producer, but she can't do her job because she's not trained for it, and then she enforces the stereotype that women can't do their jobs.

But I believe in affirmative action. I think that there is an inherent value to diversity on teams, and I would also like to see more game developers hire more African-Americans, for example. Like I can think of maybe like three African-American developers off the top of my head. And that's kind of criminal considering how many African-Americans play games, especially sports games, which are hugely popular. It seems weird to me. Like why wouldn't you want to do that? Why wouldn't you say that diversity is important on your team? And being a woman is part of that, but yeah, it has to do with the motivation, and if they are also looking for other qualities other than just the color of your skin or what gender you are.

Multiplayer: But what about in the case of Jade Raymond? She was certainly qualified but was also considered a pretty spokesperson for her game. Could she have done anything?

Pinckard: I don't know that she could have done anything, actually. She is genetically, accidentally blessed with a combination of smarts and ambition and looks that our culture happens to find attractive, and that's not her fault. I think that she's always been charismatic, and even more than just being physically attractive, she can convey a passion for the game. She comes off very well on camera. She's very likable. She has what a friend of mine calls the "Julia Roberts effect," where it makes people like her. She's a little bit goofy, and she seems like a real human. And I think that is supremely valuable, because, as an industry, don't we want more people to understand that games aren't freaky, violent products? But that they can be made by someone as articulate, and as attractive, as Jade is?

She went on this French language program -- I forget what the name of the program is -- but she was the first game designer to go on this French language program, and all these parents saw it, and they were calling up their kids saying like, "Oh, I saw this very nice young woman talking about games, and I don't think games are so bad anymore." So I think it has a really positive effect. And I think we do need more charismatic spokespeople, wherever they come from. And in her case, yeah, she has a real background in programming. She's done tons of stuff before. And then she got picked up by G4, and of course she's not going to turn that down because it's a chance to be a game developer and to talk about games. What game developer wouldn't want that? What game developer's going to turn that down, a chance for them to explain why games are cool to a wider audience?

And then I think, I don't know exactly how it happened, but I think Ubisoft noticed the amount of press that she was getting, and they did what most companies would do, which is they exploited that. I like Ubisoft and all, but they don't care about Jade as much as they care about their bottom dollar, and they're going to do what they think works. And if the GameTrailers interviews that have Jade on them get like 20 times the hits as any other product that they put out, what are they going to do? They're going to put her in front of the camera. I think they created a lot of resentment though, both internally and maybe externally. I think a lot of men were resentful of her stature, and maybe some of them thought she didn't deserve it, and they deserved it more or whatever. It's difficult. It's complicated.

Multiplayer: And what do you think about the gaming press and gamers' reactions to her?

Pinckard: Well, to be honest, I've sort of avoided the worst reactions, just because I don't want to be upset. It astonished me actually that I read a lot of feedback or heard a lot of people saying, "I've never heard of Jade until this," or "I had no idea that she was anything before she was a G4 host." And so that kind of astonished me a little, because if you just do a little Google searching you'll see her list of credits, bios and stuff. So number one was that people didn't really seem to know who she was or really know her background, and they just accepted her on the surface as this spokesperson, which disappointed me.

And number two, this sort of attitude of that's just how fame is. Like, "Oh well! That's what happens when you get famous. Too bad!" And they weren't quite saying it's her fault. Some of them did, but they were sort of veering in that direction. And I do agree that the celebrity culture is supremely f--ked up. Like I feel sorry for Lindsay Lohan. Really I do. How can you have a normal life when you have to live in front of the cameras like that? But I also think that that doesn't make it right.

Multiplayer: But I think that kind of attention is new on the game development side. No one has really gotten that kind of Lindsay Lohan treatment before.

Pinckard: Yeah, you're right. Exactly. The closest people that we can think of that have that are like Will Wright and Shigeru Miyamoto. But those guys have been around for a while.

Multiplayer: And no one's talking about what they wear or how they look.

Pinckard: Yeah, completely. And the thing is, those dudes who are like, "It's not a big deal. I'd be flattered if it happened to me," or whatever, it's like, really would you? If you were depicted giving a f--king blowjob to these gamer geeks, you would think that's flattering? They would go ballistic. And they don't even think about that. It's really difficult for them to consider.

Multiplayer: Do you think that game companies are responsible for the images of their employees, particularly in the case of Ubisoft and Jade Raymond?

Pinckard: Well, I know in my post I kind of called out Ubisoft because I do think they've, in this case, sort of pushed her beyond what was proportionally appropriate. Usually the creative directors are the ones who get pushed out. You think of Harvey Smith with "BlackSite: Area 51." Usually it's that role that gets the promotion, and in this case it's the producer. And although the producers often go on PR stuff, and I've talked to a lot of producers about their games, they're not usually the lead spokesperson. So I think in this case that's what the gamers saw as inauthentic. Gamers are really smart like that. They can really sniff out these PR things. So a lot of the comments were along the lines of, "She's just a producer. She had no creative input." Which isn't strictly true. It depends on the company. Sometimes producers have a lot of creative input. Whatever, it doesn’t matter. According to the way the rest of the industry works, that's pretty much true. I think in that sense maybe Ubisoft is in some way responsible for pushing her beyond what they would normally have done. And I think that was the source of a lot of jealousy.

Multiplayer: Why do you think gamers and the gaming press focus on women the way they do?

Pinckard: You know, I think that's just the nature of who we are as human society. That's why there is this celebrity culture and why we revere attractive people, and then also can't wait to tear them down. [Laughs] I think it's a confluence of factors. It's the fact that Jade is attractive to the gaming press, of course you're going to write about her. And once that happens Ubisoft is going to push her more because they realize she gets press and then she's going to continue to do it because it's her job, and as a producer what do you want? You want to sell copies of your game and make sure the game is successful. You do that by going out and doing interviews, representing your game. You know, you can't fault any of them really for doing their jobs. ...

I mean, I think it's tough. Because if you're an attractive woman in the industry, there's a fine line between promotion that's going to enhance your brand and be good for you and make you into a celebrity, and there is a strength in being a celebrity, right? There is definitely a strength to Jade now that she's famous and she can go where she wants and she has more clout to do what she wants and to have more control over what she works on, and that's all really good. On the other hand, where is the line? Obviously for Jade, she was offended that somebody would think that she would even do a Maxim cover or strip, and I think some women would. ... So where is that line? I don't know.

Multiplayer: Do you think that the image of female video game characters, like Lara Croft for example, affect how women are viewed?

Pinckard: That's a neat question. Well, I think the image of female game characters is not unique to games. I think you see it in comic books and the sort of pulp fiction and stuff like that. So I think it just comes from a tradition of that kind of stuff. And I think it is changing, like it has changed in comics. It used to be in the '60s and '70s, female characters were all sort of drawn in a certain way, and now you have the rise of indie comics with very unusual female characters. And I do think that is happening with games, as well.

The Lara Croft thing is a tough one, because there's this woman that I met at Stanford Law who was a gamer, and she loved Lara Croft, and she had Lara Croft as her desktop wallpaper, and then she was told by people at her work that that was considered sexual harassment and she had to take it down. And she was like, "But she's my hero!" [Laughs] You know? She took it down. What could she do? But she was like, it's kind of tragic that one woman's hero becomes another woman's -- I don't know -- unpleasant reminder of the sexualized nature of the avatars.

So I think for me Lara Croft, the design of her was not as offensive as the way that she was marketed. And I separate those two. I think when Toby [Gard] designed Lara Croft, he did design her to be this basically over-the-top superhero. And then when marketing got a hold of her, they had her pose topless with Duke Nukem's hands on her boobs, and they had her do these stupid pictorials. And Toby, the creator was like, "Lara Croft, my character, would never do those. She is a classy, strong woman." He felt like he had lost control over how she was depicted and presented. And of course she's virtual; she can't say no. They can make her do whatever they want. Which is another interesting form of manipulation. Because at least Jade can say no.

Multiplayer: On one hand, people notice Lara Croft for her proportions, but at the same time, people love and respect those games because she's a strong female protagonist. And it is sort of the same thing with comics, too. Wonder Woman is known for strutting around in almost no clothes, but at the same time her character is strong-willed. So I think being a powerful woman who's sexy isn't necessarily a bad thing...

Pinckard: I think you totally hit the nail on the head. It's about how the character behaves. I think that's more important. So when a character is made to appear nude in Playboy pictorials… First of all, come on, people. It's a f--king digital character. You really need to see her boobs? Draw some boobs and look at that instead. And I wonder if there were ever female gamers who felt betrayed by that. Like, "Oh my God, my icon... I can't believe she would do that." I do think that right now for me a more important point is the lack of any female models at all in some games. And I think that games are getting away from this, but remember the first "Fable"? I was so pissed that you couldn't play as a female. And I was just like, come on. Would it really have been that hard to have a female skin, you know?

Multiplayer: I totally agree. Like in "Crackdown." I love that game, but why can't I just be a woman? Why can't I be a genetically enhanced female agent running around the city? [Here's why.]

Pinckard: Yeah, totally. And even with "Halo." I remember playing co-op, we used to play multiplayer all the time and it was me, my sister and my friends Jason and Jolene. It was boys and girls, and it was like, "How come there's no females?" So instead we'd color our suits pink and red and orange and these more feminine colors, because that was all we had to distinguish. When I'm running around on the multiplayer map, I want people to know that it's me, and I want people to know that I'm Jane and I'm a girl and I'm going to try to frag you! Although I'm really bad at those games. But I think that's a problem.

Multiplayer: Some women argue, "There’s no difference. I like 'Halo' just like anyone else. End of story." And then others obviously think that there's enough of a difference to where they are part of female gamer clans and stuff. Do you think there's a fundamental difference between male and female gamers?

Pinckard: I think there are differences between men and women, period, and that probably extends to gamers. But just because a difference exists, though, it doesn't mean that men and women can't enjoy the same games. And I think that's clear. I mean, "Halo" is a great example, because it does have crossover appeal in a lot of ways. And my sister, who isn't really a gamer, she just buys maybe two games every six months and then plays those or just comes over to my house to play "Halo." She really only plays "Halo" pretty much these days. But "Halo" is a sort of an intuitive FPS console game. It's somewhat accessible, so I think that it can appeal to men and women.

I also think that there's lots of evidence that women do really like and excel at hardcore PVP or "Quake Wars" type of games as well. But I would say those women are the exception. Demographically speaking, they are the exception. That's not to invalidate their choices, but it's to say that they're already kind of a self-selecting and special group. And not all women are like that obviously, for a variety of reasons.

So I think it's important to have a diversity in the media that we offer to people. Because people have different tastes, and it's true that women don't tend to enjoy games like "Quake." I mean, I don't. I can play them, and I used to like them, and I wonder too if it has to do with getting older. Like I used to love competitive games a lot, when I was in my twenties, you know, and I loved shooting at people and that adrenaline rush. And now I find that that's not as satisfying to me, for whatever reason. Maybe I'm looking for different experiences, and I think at the conference, at the last couple of days, a lot of people touched on this idea that we, as gamers, are getting older. We're having children. We're married. We have these deep social relationships. We want something more from our games than what we used to want when we were younger, when we used to be satisfied with power fantasies and these very simple sort of epic experiences. And now we're saying, "What's the next level? What else is it that games can deliver to me emotionally?"

Multiplayer: Right, and I think I read this on N'Gai Croal's blog, where there was a reader that was like, "I'm a dad, and I love hardcore games, but like I just don't have the time. I need something that's shorter, and easy to save, but gives me the satisfaction I would get from a hardcore gamer's game. I would think that’s a big challenge for game developers to sort of create that experience.

Pinckard: Totally. I absolutely agree. And I also think that women have traditionally been at the forefront of this, because they're burdened with more than their fair share of house work and childcare, usually. That's just statistical. And so they're going to have less leisure time for games. Now men are sort of catching up. But I think women have always been less free to play games the way that men have. So maybe that's why women play casual games or they play more casually. And they just don't want the same kind of game that requires 20, 40 hours of play. I think that's totally right.

Multiplayer: Before, you had mentioned something about when people want to design games for women, they ask your opinion. [Former EDGE editor-in-chief] Margaret Robertson mentioned on her blog that she's uncomfortable with being the spokesperson for 51% of the world's population. Obviously, you're very vocal about your beliefs. Do you feel comfortable with being a mouthpiece for female gamers?

Pinckard: That's a really good question, because I think I feel ambivalent about it. On the one hand, any time women get asked to speak about games I think they should, just to be visible and show we're out there and we're normal. And so I rarely turn down speaking requests. And it's not like I get a ton, but I've spoken at South by Southwest a few times and stuff like that. So I rarely turn it down. But I also try to make it clear when I'm on the panel, or whatever it is, to say like you can't distill the preferences of an entire gender to the three people on this panel. That's impossible. So I try to navigate that by accepting [speaking engagements], because I think it's important to talk about these issues, but then I say that these issues are way too big for us to really explain in the course of this 45-minute presentation.

Multiplayer: What do you think that women can do in the industry to overcome sexism?

Pinckard: That is a great question. I think there's two big things that we can do. One is to support other women in the industry, wherever they are. Support the ones that are doing good work. ... Really support the ones who you think are doing the right things, making the right choices and who are admirable, and support each other. I support just in little ways. Like when students write to me to ask about stuff, I almost always answer as much as I can, because more women in the industry's a good thing.

And second, don't take this s--t lying down. When stuff like this happens, say something. Like if people are forwarding this s--t to you at work, go to your manager or even go to f--king HR and say this is unacceptable. Don't be like, "Oh well, it's a boys' world and I'm the only girl in the company. What can I do?" That's bulls--t. You belong there, too. You were hired for a reason. So have some self-esteem and do something. And say controversial things. And you'll get attacked, and you'll get called a "bitch" and all this stuff. So what? More people are going to agree with you I think than not.

Multiplayer: At least just get it out there for discussion.

Pinckard: Yeah, like you're doing. Don't pretend that it's a problem that's going to go away.

Got thoughts on Jane Pinckard’s interview? Let us know! And check back later to see more interviews from women working in games. Next up: "Assassin's Creed"'s Elspeth Tory, "Sex in Video Games" author Brenda Brathwaite and Sega PR's Tali Fischer.

And it's not just me. Other people have been discussing the topic during the past few weeks.

From extreme and public cases, such as the recent sexualized comic about "Assassin's Creed" producer Jade Raymond to even subtle instances where male developers overlook me to speak to my male associates, I've noticed that women gamers are viewed and treated differently from (and by) their male counterparts. But this is nothing new, and people have talked about it before.

Recently, I decided to track down some major women in the industry to really discuss what it's like to be a woman working in games. In this special week-long Multiplayer series, I'll be publishing an interview with a different woman every day. From journalists to developers to publicists, these women told me about their personal experiences. Had they encountered sexism in this predominantly male industry? Is the gaming industry an environment where women can thrive? What are the advantages and disadvantages of being a female in this field?

One woman that first came to my mind was G4's Morgan Webb. As the co-host of the video game program "X-Play," she's a highly visible woman in gaming, and last week she gave me an honest interview over the phone. Here's an excerpt, where she answers my question about the negative attention some women gamers get, particularly on the Internet:

Webb: I do not read fan e-mail because 0.1 percent of people ruin it for everybody, and I don't read forums because 0.1 percent of people ruin it for everybody. And it would be really great if I could go on a forum and talk to people who like the show and talk about games, but I can't because there's some 14 year-old jerk somewhere who just wants to be an idiot and try and get attention.

Make the jump to read more of Ms. Webb's candid responses about posing for Maxim, Jade Raymond, and why the world doesn't really need more women playing games...

Morgan Webb is the co-host and senior segment producer of the video game review show "X-Play." The 29 year-old, Los Angeles native has always been a gamer and learned about computers in her spare time during college (she majored in Rhetoric and minored in Italian). Following a stint as a website administrator for a dot-com company, she became an associate producer for TechTV's "The Screen Savers." From there she was promoted to an on-air position hosting segments on operating systems and tech tips, and then began co-hosting "X-Play" with Adam Sessler in 2003. Since then, she's become sort of a pin-up girl for male gamers, thanks to photo spreads in lad mags like FHM and Maxim. She also hosts daily video segments of the latest tech news on her website WebbAlert.

Multiplayer: Tell me about your career and how you got the job at "X-Play."

Webb: I needed a job and so I go a job at TechTV, and I was doing research and was the tape producer, so it wasn't actually on-air or meant to be on-air at all. I just had a good knowledge of computers and technology, and so they hired me to basically do a little bit of technical work for them. Then I started doing little segments like tech help segments on-air; no games just computers. Windows tips, how to install hard drives and that kind of thing. A few times out of the week I would go on [TV], and I started to go on a little more and started to go on a little more. And when they were revamping a show called "Extended Play" with Adam Sessler -- he'd been on that show for a while -- they wanted to update it and turn it into a show called "X-Play." And they were looking for a woman who knew about video games and I happened to be working in the company, knew everybody, and I'd been friends with Adam. They knew I that liked to play games and that's how they hired me to be on "X-Play."

Multiplayer: Do you think you encountered any challenges during your career that men would've never had to face?

Webb: Not really. I mean, I think there's sort of two ways to look at it. One way to look at it is just technology and video games in general. People assume you don't really know anything, and I remember I would be sitting next to somebody on "The Screen Savers" -- and I have tons of work experience and IT experience -- and somebody would come up and ask the guy next to me, who had no experience really with computers at all, "How do you do this thing with the computer?" It would sort of be frustrating, but I would try to not take it too personally. And really, I don't really need to spend my life fixing people's computers for them, but on the one hand there's that side of it, you know. On the other hand, I wouldn't be where I am if I were a man, to be honest. I wouldn't be on the show. I wouldn't be writing columns for FHM. I wouldn't be considered just like a rare and interesting... specimen or whatever, if I weren't a woman. So I am where I am because I'm a woman and that's just the way it is.

Multiplayer: Are you suggesting that if you were a man with the same knowledge, you wouldn't be as successful as you are now?

Webb: Here's the thing: television is different then the rest of the world. I have faith in the fact that if I didn't find this television show, I would have a great job. And I don't think that I have this job solely because I'm a woman. But I think that yeah, television is different, and they want a show with a man and a woman. They're looking around for a woman who knows a lot about video games, and they're looking and looking and looking and then they come across me. I think it's changing, and I think that there's lots more women who are interested and knowledgeable about video games, but it's just... I don't really want to make this like a huge something about society because I really don't think that it is that. I just think realistically, in television, they're thinking, "We're going to have better ratings if we put a cute girl up there." And I think they got lucky and they found a woman who really actually knows about video games and likes them because television's default is just going to be to find the "cute" woman, and not really care [what she knows]. ...

I do think about it a lot. It used to really bother me that men, and not purposefully and not really with any malice, would assume that I don't really know what I'm talking about or would know less than a man on the topic, but then I have to just say, you know what, if I were a guy, I'd probably be like an editor at GameSpot, you know what I mean? Which is fine, which is totally respectable, but I wouldn't have my own TV show.

Multiplayer: Do you feel people have different expectations of you because you're a woman?

Webb: Oh yeah, if somebody sees me -- and I always get recognized at the airport for some reason, I don't know why that is -- but I'm walking down the airport... and they ask me, "Do you really play games?" And I used to kind of get insulted because I don't walk up to you and question your credentials for your job.

Multiplayer: You would think that with your TV show, it would be pretty obvious that you play games.

Webb: You know, I don't know... [sighs] You'd think. But yeah, if you just watch "X-Play" once in a while or something like that, or if you don't catch E3 when I'm doing live interviews, you might think, "Oh, she can't possibly play games!" I try to be understanding about that and appreciate that they watch the show and everything.

Multiplayer: Do you think that some people might just think that you're just a pretty face reading a script?

Webb: Yeah, and I also think the other thing that happens is like, if people are fans and they see me, they get nervous and they can't necessarily think of...

Multiplayer: The best thing to say?

Webb: You know what I mean! People just say things and they probably walk away and they're like "Oh, that was dumb." [laughs]

Multiplayer: So you give them the benefit of the doubt...

Webb: Exactly. I'm always nice. We just appreciate that people, it's not like our show is "Dancing with the Stars." We appreciate that they watch and we all have something in common because we like to play games. They're my people. We are a nation of nerds.

Multiplayer: Did you ever feel that you were treated differently based on your gender within the industry?

Webb: You know, I don't really think so at this point because we all sort of know each other. We see each other at parties and hang out, and I'm probably more recognizable, and Adam Sessler is recognizable, because we're on TV. And so people probably recognize us a little more. But again, a nation of nerds. I'm a nerd with some spit polish and somebody to do my hair. [laughs]

Multiplayer: Do you feel self-conscious going to gaming events and sometimes being the only female around?

Webb: Not really. And the thing is, I'm not the only female around. There's other women, and the PR departments are all female. And I think part of it is just because I'm used to it. [laughs] I'm so used to being one of the only women so yeah, there's been many times I can think of when I'm sitting at a table with game journalists. We're at an event and we decide to go get food, and I look around and that's like 20 people and I'm the only woman. I mean, I'm so used to it that I don't think I even notice anymore.

Multiplayer: When you're going to do an on-camera interview, do you think about what you wear? I feel like most men don't have to worry about their image as much as women do.

Webb: It's not even most men. I mean, Adam has to go into make-up and wardrobe, too. I don't think it's men versus women because it's TV. Because a guy can be on TV and they go in for 10 minutes; they do a little bit of powder so they're not shiny and a little bit of hairspray so their hair is under control, and then they go out there. But if if I'm doing an interview, I'm in makeup for an hour and-a-half. It sucks. [laughs]

Multiplayer: And how do you feel about having to do that versus the 10-minute makeover?

Webb: I mean, it's just like what are you going to do. [laughs] It's frustrating sometimes when we're at E3 and Adam's off playing games and I'm sitting in makeup. It really sucks. On the other hand, what am I going to do? It's how it is.

Multiplayer: Do you have any input at all on what you wear? Do they ever ask you to wear something that you don't feel comfortable with?

Webb: Oh no, I absolutely have input. [The wardrobe department goes] shopping and they pick it out. I usually try it on and we sort of agree... If I'm not comfortable in it, then I'm not going to wear it. Or if it's too small or too big, I go, "Okay maybe I would like this in a different color." But we've also been working together a long time so it's not like they don't know what I like and what I feel is too low cut or too tight or something like that.

Multiplayer: I was reading Jane Pinckard's blog Game Girl Advance, and she basically wrote, "It's hard to be a woman in gaming but it's even harder to be a beautiful woman in gaming." Do you agree or disagree with that statement?

Webb: [sighs] I feel like it's not really fair for me because I... Like I have a TV show and that gives me so much exposure and legitimacy, I don't know if I necessarily know how it would be [otherwise]. It's sort of not fair because I feel I've gotten a lot of legitimacy because I've been given the opportunity to get on stage and interview Phil Harrison and do a lot of these things that I think would be a struggle if I were woman without this platform. And I can't really understand that struggle, and I feel bad that I can't. [laughs] Because I know it's not really fair because I just kind of fell into the situation. But you know, yeah, it would probably be hard, but it probably would be easier in its own way because people are going to remember you. Even just any woman, you're "the woman." You stick out in some people's minds, and I think that would give you an advantage. And I think that's hard to focus on that, especially as I get older and try to focus on the advantages that being a woman in this industry bring you versus the disadvantages. Because I think in the end, the guys want women around because, I'd want women around, and they're going to respect you if you know your s--t... I try to remind myself that when I get frustrated, when the 17th person asks me if I really play video games, I try to remind myself that there a lot of advantages and not be mean to this poor guy who like is looking at me with these hopeful eyes. [laughs] "Say yes, please say yes."

Multiplayer: As a prominent woman in gaming, do you feel like you should be a spokesperson for women gamers?

Webb: I think that people would like me to be, and I think that I'm sort of a little bit reluctant to take that role on. People often try to get me... "Don't you want to encourage young women to play video games?" I'm like eh. It's not like anyone's keeping them from playing games. They're free to if they so choose and second of all, I think being in the gaming industry is great. There's a lot of jobs for women, and I think that if more women are in the gaming industry, there's going to be a lot more games for women... Men and women -- and I'm an exception because I like to shoot people in the head in my video games -- but they realistically like different video games. And I think women, when they look at games like "Soul Calibur," where all the women are wearing spandex everything, a woman looks at that game and says, "This game isn't made for me. This game was made for men and I can see that." And whether that's conscious or subconscious, it's going to turn her off.

On the other hand, games are supposed to be fun and like a time-waster. And I don't think the world will necessarily be a better place if I get lots of young woman to play video games. Does that make sense? But if a woman wants to play video games, more power to her. They're fun, and I enjoy it. It makes me feel like a happier person, but I have a lot of girlfriends who couldn't care less about video games... and I don't think their lives are missing anything for that. But on the other hand, I would be happy if there were more women in the video game industry. I think there would be more video games for women. So it would sort of be perpetuating, but I don't think it's a noble mission to... there are bigger problems in the world than women not playing video games. [laughs]

Multiplayer: Do you think it's harder for women to break into the industry?

Webb: I don't think so. I think if a woman comes in with good credentials, strong writing skills and a visible passion for [gaming], I think she's going to have an advantage. I think employers recognize that hey, it's probably good to have some women in here. [laughs]

Multiplayer: Why do you think that there are so few women right now though?

Webb: I think it's changing. You do see a lot of women now at the conventions. You see these women coming up, and I think in five years, it's not going to be me and one other woman in the room. It's going to be a lot.

Multiplayer: Why do you think that the gaming press and gamers in general focus on women the way they do?

Webb: Because boys like girls, straight up. Because Nerd #14 getting hired at Kotaku; not a story. Hot chick? Story. You talk to her about why they're a woman in the gaming industry. Guys all think, "Wow, wouldn't it be great if there were more? Even though she'd veto my triple-X busted woman that I want to put in this video game." [laughs]

Multiplayer: But what about all the negative attention, like the focus on Jade Raymond...

Webb: She made a great game. Yeah, people can be mean. That made me mad, because she's so nice. But I mean, that's the thing, you're just not going to be left alone. Like I've gotten so many horrible e-mails, I don't even want to read them anymore. But that's just being on TV. They don't think that you're really a person. They just write you. Sometimes I would write people back and go, "You kiss your momma with that mouth?" And then they go, "Oh, I'm so sorry. I didn't think you read these e-mails." And I'm like, "Yeah, that's what I thought." But I think that's a problem with anybody in the public eye. I don't think that necessarily has anything to do with women in games. I think it's just you obviously don't exist because you're -- I don't even want to use the word "famous" for myself but... known.

Here's the thing: 99.9 percent of people are awesome and cool and fine and normal, and there's the 0.1 percent of people who are morons and chicken-s--t a--holes, and they ruin it for everybody. And that sucks because I do not read fan e-mail because 0.1 percent of people ruin it for everybody, and I don't read forums because 0.1 percent of people ruin it for everybody. And it would be really great if I could go on a forum and talk to people who like the show and talk about games, but I can't because there's some 14 year-old jerk somewhere who just wants to be an idiot and try and get attention. And then you can't engage them because if you give them attention, then they win. And it's really unfortunate, and I wish that weren't true but that's the nature of the Internet; everybody gets a voice whether or not they deserve one, and I think it'd be great to get some sort of verification system so people could take ownership of their names and reputations. I think that situation, there could be some really interesting conversations. Until that day, I stay away.

Multiplayer: Does it feel odd being the object of desire by so many people, especially gamers?

Webb: You know, when you don't read the forums,you don't really think about it. If you don't really interact with fan sites and that kind of thing, then you just kind of live your life. Which is good. I don't want to constantly read fan forums and find people who think I'm "hot" or something because then that's not a normal life. I feel like you can't really live like that because then your entire ego is going to be wrapped up in what random people think of you and what forum you land on that day because half the forums are going to be like "She's dumb and she has ugly hair" or something. People are just going to write how your hair was ugly that day or how your outfit was stupid or how you look fat or whatever and it's like, you know what? I'm trying, I'm working really hard, and I'm putting myself out there. What's my other option? Sit at home? Play video games all day? Oh wait... [laughs]

Multiplayer: You've posed for men's magazines like Maxim and FHM. How were you approached to do that and what was your initial reaction?

Webb: Oh, they just call you up. They just call up your PR department, or your PR dept calls them up. I forgot how that went. But they say, "Hey you wanna pose?" and you're like, "Uhhh, yeah okay." And then they pick a date and that's it. [laughs]

Multiplayer: But did you have to think about it?

Webb: Yeah... Well, first of all, it kind of kills your legitimacy a little bit, if you sort of present yourself as, "Oh, I'm the hot chick" because nobody thinks you actually know anything because pretty girls are stupid apparently. Um, I learned that.

Multiplayer: So was that a lesson you learned from posing for Maxim?

Webb: No, no, no. I actually had a good experience with that, but that's what made me think about it initially was you know, you try, you work hard to keep your legitimacy and then somebody is saying if you present yourself as a bikini girl, bikini girls aren't necessarily smart. But I think they presented it well, there was the article with it, [FHM or Maxim] never tried to get me to do something I wasn't comfortable with. They made it a comfortable experience, so I didn't really feel like it was a bad thing to do. Yeah, but I mean I had to think about it a little bit. It's just sort of you have to think about how you present yourself.

Multiplayer: How did you think that doing those spreads has impacted your career?

Webb: I don't know. People talk about it a lot, but I don't know. I mean... I don't really know the answer to that question. [laughs] It's like I still have the same job, I still work on my same show, and it's not like it got me some fancy job on "Dancing with the Stars" or something.

Multiplayer: Do you want to be on "Dancing with the Stars"?

Webb: No! [laughs] I don't know why I keep coming back to that. But yeah, [the photo spreads] seemed like a good opportunity. I was able to test it out before I agreed to do a year's worth of pictures and stuff.

Multiplayer: Would you consider doing it again in the future?

Webb: I don't know. I sort of doubt it. But you know, never say never.

Multiplayer: Do you think people viewed you as "dumb" because you posed in Maxim?

Webb: Yeah, I think that there were some people who believed that.

Multiplayer: But despite that, it was still something you wanted to do?

Webb: I just felt it was something that was probably good for my career and good for my show because really, I would love more people to be aware of "X-Play" and so it was just a good promotional opportunity for my show. I just work with so many great people and it's our baby. I just want our show to do well and if I can do something to help promote my show then it's sort of irresponsible of me not to do it. Especially since they weren't trying to push me in a direction that I didn't feel comfortable with, so I just think that, I don't know, it made sense for that reason.

Multiplayer: What would you say to people who might criticize you for doing that?

Webb: People criticize everything that you do. You just can't worry about it. You just have to make your best decision with the available information and you know, try your best. I think that a lot of people that criticize spend a lot of time criticizing but don't spend a lot of time doing their own thing or putting themselves at risk. So I don't really like to accept criticism from people who don't put themselves out there in some way.

Got thoughts on Morgan Webb's interview? Let us know! And check back later to see more interviews from women working in games. Next up: Game Girl Advance's Jane Pinckard, "Assassin's Creed"'s Elspeth Tory,"Sex in Video Games" author Brenda Brathwaite and Sega PR's Tali Fischer.