In talking about how few African-Americans were in the games industry, a few interviewees suggested that the QA department was a good way to break in.

Today's interview is with Shana Bryant, someone who actually works in Quality Assurance -- a Manager of Compliance QA in Midway San Diego to be exact. I met Bryant at GDC in February at the IDGA minorities gathering, where she told me she was going to try to count how many other black women she saw during the conference.

In an e-mail interview, I asked the 28 year-old what she thought about people who think there's no need to make any major changes to diversify the industry:

"There's nothing wrong with a little change. Our industry can either accept what we have and rest on its collective laurels while our capacity for creating a new and exciting game development experience silently plateaus, or we can continue to move diligently toward improvement, champion good design, and reward the risk-takers. A world without games like 'Katamari Damacy,' 'Okami,' 'Psychonauts' or 'Ico,' regardless of their sell-through numbers, is a world that is decidedly more drab, in my opinion. This is not to knock the 'Bioshock's or 'Call of Duty 4's of the world, but it's important to note how the sleepers can also help define the direction of our industry."

Continue reading to see her thoughts on being a minority in terms of race and gender and just how many other black women she saw at GDC...

Multiplayer: Tell me about your career and how you got to where you are.

Bryant: I'm currently the Manager of Compliance Quality Assurance down in Midway San Diego. I manage a team of twelve Technical Standards Engineers and Technical Standards Analysts across three studios. We provide Standards testing services to all of Midway's Product Development teams.

I've always wanted to be in the games industry. I've loved games since back in the day, when there was no such thing as a "game design degree" and when colleges still looked at video games as a bothersome sidequest on the way to "real" software development.

I got a four-year degree in CompSci. I'd fallen out of love with coding some time during my senior year, but programming was still the most publicized way to get into the industry, so that's what I stuck with. I actually wound up entering the industry through the Quality Assurance department, and now five years later, I'm managing a group that spans three studios and provides testing support to six studios.

QA has given me a solid understanding of the game development cycle. I have additional aspirations to move into design and production and a five-year plan in which to reach them. Overall, not too bad, I think.

Multiplayer: Have you ever felt that your race or your gender has presented any challenges during your career?

Bryant: The university I attended had a pretty low minority population in its Engineering College. In college courses, I was typically one of maybe four black students, and I was certainly the only black female. In the industry, the makeup is pretty much the same. It's intimidating at times. I'm one of a handful, but I don't let these things hold me back.

Multiplayer: If so, what do you do to cope? Do you have advice for others?

Bryant: Well, it's definitely an unusual profession for a woman, let alone a *black* woman, to choose. At my previous job, all we made were sports games, and more often than not, I felt like I was sitting in the locker-room of one of those sports teams. There were times when I felt like the perception was that just because I was a "girl," I couldn't play games or test games or lead a team of guys who were sports gamers. Even if I could do any of these things, I certainly couldn't be good at it. I wasn't expected to succeed, and when you encounter that kind of resistance, it can lead to a very stressful environment.

But I love a good challenge.

So when people say I can't do something, I do my best to prove them wrong, especially when their biases are based on silly things like color or gender. And that's the same advice I'd give to others. There's no "coping" in this industry. It's competitive by nature, and you really have to love it if you are to truly thrive. I've seen both men and women of all shapes and colors wash out because it was too much. I don't blame them. Sometimes, the industry *asks* for too much. I have no idea if that will change, but I love being a part of the process, so I go from day to day with no regrets.

Multiplayer: Do you feel that your race has presented any particular advantages or disadvantages? What about your gender?

Bryant: I've chosen an industry that’s predominantly male and predominantly white, and I know that, but I think the key is to use it to your advantage. In my previous industry job, I was one of two females working alongside 250+ men. Everyone knew my name. Everyone knew my face, and I liked it that way. I recognize that there are ways in which it could be a disadvantage, and sometimes it's a struggle, but overall, I just try to look at it as another way of making an impression.

Multiplayer: When we met at GDC, you were telling me a funny story about how you were trying to count how many black women you saw there. How many did you end up seeing?

Bryant: The grand total was six, including myself, and I hear that GDC had an attendance of over 18,000 this year.

I'm a professional black woman who chose to pursue a career in an industry in which you don't see too many blacks or women. Without going off too much on a tangent, there are struggles and situations in which I've found myself in my short industry career, and I'm sure those other five women have as well. I think it's important to be able to form connections with people whether that be in actual conversation or just momentary eye-contact amongst the swirling crowd. Chances are they've probably had to overcome the same challenges and obstacles as I have.

Incidentally, I was surprised to see that there was actually a line at the women's restroom at GDC this year, and judging from the conversations I overheard, so were others. As silly as it seems, we were all pretty encouraged by it.

Multiplayer: Do you think that there are more black women and men over the years going into the games industry?

Bryant: Absolutely. The industry is growing and changing, and I think that's important. Once upon a time, video game development was the software development industry's pariah. Now, it's a multi-billion dollar industry that takes in more annual revenues than film. You see commercials on TV about how to get a degree "making games" practically every other minute. It's a pretty big accomplishment in just 20 years time.

Multiplayer: Although it's apparent that many African-Americans play games, it doesn't seem that there's many making them. Why do you think that is?

Bryant: I think we see that there's something missing from the way African-Americans are often represented in a lot of the games out there, but yet and still, we have no idea if we'll be able to make an impact. "Will I be able to make the kind of game that I think should be made?"

And beyond that, I think a lot of folks are just now starting to see it as a career choice. Young people are starting to realize that game development is something you can make a real living at. It's not like running off to join the circus. There are curriculums that are centered specifically around it, and the industry is looking for talent above all else.

Multiplayer: Is diversity important in the video games industry?

Bryant: Very. I constantly see article after article about how the games industry is starting to run into the same problem as the movie industry – making the same thing year after year. We need a new influx of talent and creativity to help us create that new genre or capture a new audience.

Multiplayer: If yes, what do you say to those people who think the industry is doing fine as it is (particularly in terms of revenue)?

Bryant: I say there's nothing wrong with a little change. Our industry can either accept what we have and rest on its collective laurels while our capacity for creating a new and exciting game development experience silently plateaus, or we can continue to move diligently toward improvement, champion good design, and reward the risk-takers. A world without games like "Katamari Damacy," "Okami," "Psychonauts" or "Ico," regardless of their sell-through numbers, is a world that is decidedly more drab, in my opinion. This is not to knock the "Bioshock"s or "Call of Duty 4"s of the world, but it's important to note how the sleepers can also help define the direction of our industry.

Multiplayer: What do you think of the way African-Americans have been presented in games?

Bryant: I think the lack of diversity in game design/development teams is pretty apparent when you consider the way in which black people are typically featured. If and when we do appear, we are often uniformly portrayed as acting a certain way or speaking a certain way. There's typically some criminal element in the game's storyline, or they're just over-the-top obnoxious characters.

Oh, and they've probably had an arm sawed off and replaced with a gun.

I attended a roundtable at GDC regarding minority-inclusion in game development, and it was pretty thought-provoking. It's true that there is still a certain artistic vision that has to be maintained in a game. For example, I don't think it would necessarily be an improvement if we had black Gorons running around the world of Hyrule, but I don't think it has to be as blatant as that. There are a number of games in which inclusive design -- of both women and minorities -- would constitute a significant improvement. It's something as simple as including ethnic characteristics in a character creation engine instead of just offering a palette swap or allowing someone to create a female player in a sports title. In a lot of cases, there's very little overhead, and the payoff is noticeable.

Multiplayer: What kind of games would you like to see for African-Americans? Would you like to see more games starring black protagonists and characters?

Bryant: I think the key is to design and market games with an inclusive model. Game companies don't always have to actively target a particular demographic; they just have to be aware that that group is also part of their consumer base during design and development. And yes, some games are developed specifically with the "males aged 14 to 34" tag in mind. However, as minority and female populations grow both in the development and consumer categories, this might one day change.

Over time, the more diversity we introduce in games and game development, the more rich and satisfying our game experiences will be. One of the reasons "Beyond Good and Evil" got people's attention was its inclusion of an ethnic protagonist. Should that have been as dynamic a factor as it was? Maybe not, but until decisions like this become more commonplace, and diversity is considered more often than not, it's still an important discussion that needs to take place within our game development communities.

Got thoughts on Shana's interview? Let us know. You can also read previous interviews with Newsweek's N'Gai Croal, Crystal Dynamics' Morgan Gray, Nerjyzed's Brian Jackson and Sony's Felice Standifer.

During our conversation about the portrayal of black people in games, we talked about the controversy surrounding the "Resident Evil 5" trailer that debuted at last year's E3.

It depicts a white protagonist going into an apparently poverty-stricken village (the location is unspecified) and killing throngs of black zombified men and women (see the trailer yourself).

Croal's reactions were so detailed and thoroughly-described that we decided to highlight them in their own post.

Multiplayer editor Stephen Totilo wrote about his uneasiness upon viewing it, and commenters from other outlets discussed whether or not the trailer was racist. Some agreed with Totilo, but quite a few people disagreed. Earlier this week, developer Morgan Gray explained that he didn't have a problem with it either.

Croal's first reaction to the trailer was, "Wow, clearly no one black worked on this game." He explained his thoughts on the trailer and how he would have preferred Capcom to treat it:

"It's like when you engage that kind of imagery you have to be careful with it. It would be like saying you were going to do some sort of zombie movie that appeared to be set in Europe in the 1940's with skinny, emaciated, Hasidic-looking people. If you put up that imagery people would be saying, 'Are you crazy?' Well, that's what this stuff looks like. This imagery has a history. It has a history and you can't pretend otherwise. That imagery still has a history that has to be engaged, that has to be understood. ... If you're going to engage imagery that has that potential, the onus is on the creator to be aware of that because there will be repercussions in the marketplace."

Here are more of his thoughts on the matter...

(As with all of the articles in this series, we strongly suggest you read the piece in full before commenting.)

Multiplayer: I wanted to ask you about the "Resident Evil 5" trailer...

Croal: I looked at the "Resident Evil 5" trailer and I was like, "Wow, clearly no one black worked on this game." Because I wonder, and I haven't sort of really dug into it that much, but I wonder what sort of advice Capcom gave them. The point isn't that you can't have black zombies. There was a lot of imagery in that trailer that dovetailed with classic racist imagery. What was not funny, but sort of interesting, was that there were so many gamers who could not at all see it. Like literally couldn't see it. So how could you have a conversation with people who don't understand what you're talking about and think that you're sort of seeing race where nothing exists?

There was stuff like even before the point in the trailer where the crowd turned into zombies. There sort of being, in sort of post-modern parlance, they're sort of "othered." They're hidden in shadows, you can barely see their eyes, and the perspective of the trailer is not even someone who's coming to help the people. It's like they're all dangerous; they all need to be killed. It's not even like one cute African -- or Haitian or Caribbean -- child could be saved. They're all dangerous men, women and children. They all have to be killed. And given the history, given the not so distant post-colonial history, you would say to yourself, why would you uncritically put up those images? It's not as simple as saying, "Oh, they shot Spanish zombies in 'Resident Evil 4,' and now 'black zombies and that's why people are getting upset." The imagery is not the same. It doesn't carry the same history, it doesn't carry the same weight. I don't know how to explain it more clearly than that.

I think the audience isn't demanding much change. They like the games they're playing. They're by and large comfortable with the amounts of stereotypes in their games. You know because another thing that you sort of have gamers run into in situations like this is that, "Oh it's just a game." [laughs] You know, if it's just a game, then why do we care about how culturally relevant they are? I care about how culturally relevant they are. I take games as seriously as other art forms.

If there were a movie that had those images, I'd question it. I'd really want to know what's going on in this movie. Like where is this coming from? So we hadn't seen much of the game. It was just a trailer. If it had been me in that situation, I wouldn't have put out a trailer like that. I think it's very easy to misunderstand what that game is about based on that trailer. And while I would certainly withhold final judgment, if that's all the game is, I'd be concerned about that.

Multiplayer: It's funny how some people argue that it's "just a game," but also get really upset of any criticism of it...

Croal: Absolutely. It's very difficult in this country, in many countries, to have a conversation about race. Everyone brings to it their own history, their own perspective. Some people are engaged in it, some people aren't. I think some people are concerned because some people think there is a double standard. Some people say that when it’s images of only black people then people get concerned. Some people feel like their hobby is under attack; it's being misinterpreted or misunderstood. Again the portrayal of Africa, or the Caribbean, since we don’t know where it’s being set, as sort of this dark, dangerous continent filled with people who only want to do you harm goes back a long, long way. And based on the images put up on the trailer, what else are you supposed to take from it? Especially if you're not familiar with the franchise?

Even if you are familiar with the franchise, if you are familiar with those images and their historical weight, you look at it and say, "Man, that's kind of messed up." Then you look at the music that was used in the trailers, that's one of the things that was sort of funny in so that you had those people who were saying, "It's not even Africa, it's Haiti or somewhere in the Caribbean.” The music that they're using in the trailer is very reminiscent of the music used in Black Hawk Down which was set in Africa -- Somalia. That actually was one of the things that was most disturbing because it sort of had a feeling as like, "Wow, what research did this team do? Did they only watch Black Hawk Down and give it this kind of vibe?"

I don't want to put down the Capcom team that's working on it. I hope they did more research than that. But based on that trailer, it's very difficult to tell. And Black Hawk Down was a very problematic film among a handful of critics and particularly among African-American viewers and African viewers when it came out because of the sort of narrow focus of its portrayal.

That's the whole thing where only Chris Redfield appears to be human before they turn into zombies; the humanity of other people is in question. It's like you barely see their faces, he doesn't really interact with them, he sort of walks through this thing and it's sort of, "Is he there? Is he not?" It's a very strange thing, and it taps into sort of this very racist iconography. I think that's the only way I'm describing it. I'm not saying that was their intent. But it seems that a lot of people who were up in arms about the trailer couldn't see that and didn’t want to engage it.

I think, again, the point is not that Capcom can't or shouldn't make a zombie game set in what appears to be an impoverished country where the majority of residents are black. I'm not saying that. But what I am saying is that if I was Capcom, I wouldn't have suggested to put out that trailer. I would have said, "You know what, this has tremendous capacity for being misunderstood, and we want to signal that this is not what you might think it is" -- and they didn't do that. That's what I'm saying.

It's like when you engage that kind of imagery you have to be careful with it. It would be like saying you were going to do some sort of zombie movie that appeared to be set in Europe in the 1940's with skinny, emaciated, Hasidic-looking people. If you put up that imagery people would be saying, "Are you crazy?" Well, that's what this stuff looks like. This imagery has a history. It has a history and you can't pretend otherwise. That imagery still has a history that has to be engaged, that has to be understood. If you're going to tread, if you're going to engage imagery that has that potential, the onus is on the creator to be aware of that because there will be repercussions in the marketplace.

I don't know how Capcom feels about it. I think releasing that game is going to be very difficult. I think there are people and organizations who aren't very understanding of games that if that imagery is brought to them they're going to be like, "Wait, hold up. I don't know how you could put that out." Then you have to say, "Does Wal-Mart want to deal with that? Does Target want to deal with that?" I'm not saying that censorship is the answer. I'm saying that the same rights that allow Capcom to put the game out are the same rights that allow people to bring pressure on people who might release that game. This is why it is important to whoever works in the American office of a company like Capcom to be able to show this is the history, this is where this comes from, this is where we need to be more sensitive. I'm not sure they've done that yet.

We've heard from Newsweek's N'Gai Croal, Crystal Dynamics' Morgan Gray and Nerjyzed's Brian Jackson.

Now we have Felice Standifer, a producer at Sony Computer Entertainment of America. Working in the industry since 1993, Standifer has been a producer on several racing titles, including the "ATV" series and "MotorStorm" as well as the non-racing "Eye of Judgment."

During our conversation, we talked about her personal experiences working as a black woman in the industry. I asked her if gender or race has played a more significant role in her career:

I would say gender [has affected my career] more so than race. I think sometimes [people] aren't sure if you really play games or if you really know what you're doing. So I wouldn't say race, I would say gender because you still run into those kinds of people that can be surprised or "What kind of games do you play?"

Read on to learn about how she was mistaken for a booth worker at E3 and why she has a problem with "Grand Theft Auto" ...

With a degree in social sciences from UC Berkeley, Standifer focused on communications, but did some programming on her own. She started in the industry as an administrator at Sony Imagesoft in 1993. She moved up to an office manager of operations and moved into product development in 2000.Then she became an associate producer for "Twisted Metal 2" and "Jet Moto," and from there went on to produce the "ATV" franchise in 2001. Most recently she's produced several titles localized from other territories, including "Kingdom of Paradise," "Eye of Judgment" and "MotorStorm."

Multiplayer: Have you ever felt that your race has presented any challenges in your career path?

Standifer: No, I have not. The business -- when I first started in Imagesoft -- was such a tight knit group. I worked with males; of course, it was male-dominated. But I worked with a great group of people then. So I think that I have not seen any challenges because I work with great people that I learned a lot from. I worked under several producers as well as several different directors and I learned from all of them. Not only did I work for males, I worked for Connie Booth for about a year in production, and you don't get to work with a lot of women in production. So I was fortunate to work with her. I've gotten a lot of great assets for my career path for each director that I worked for.

Multiplayer: Do you feel that gender issues have been more of a challenge than race?

Standifer: I would say gender [has affected my career] more so than race. I think sometimes [people] aren't sure if you really play games or if you really know what you're doing. So I wouldn't say race, I would say gender because you still run into those kinds of people that can be surprised or "What kind of games do you play?" Although I worked on racing titles, my favorite was always shooters. I like shooter games. I did play in the arcade growing up -- didn't think I'd end up in video games. But I really enjoyed it. But I'd definitely say gender because you get women who play. But you get more women who play puzzle games and different types of games, maybe not hardcore games like shooters. I remember playing "Doom" in the office with the guys in the evening.

Multiplayer: Why didn't you think that you would end up in video games? Was it not encouraged?

Standifer: Not that it wasn't encouraged, but it wasn't an industry I knew much about. I mean you would go to the arcade and play but never really think about a job in that field. I didn't really know about the industry and started out as an administrator and learned about the industry while I was working in it.

Multiplayer: Have you had any instances where people thought you were a casual gamer and didn’t take you seriously until they got to talk to you more?

Standifer: I've had that years ago, at the larger E3s where people thought I was just hired just to work at the booth. I have had that experience before, yes.

Multiplayer: Was it an awkward situation? Was it like, "Oh you actually work here?"

Standifer: That's exactly how it was. "Oh, you actually work for Sony; you weren't actually hired to work here [at the booth]."

Multiplayer: Do you feel that your race has presented any advantages or disadvantages specifically?

Standifer: I don't think it has presented any disadvantages, and I'm not going to say necessarily advantages because I feel I've worked just as hard as others in the industry on the titles I've worked on trying to make sure they're triple-A titles.

Multiplayer: Being that you are an African-American and a woman you do sort of stand out though.

Standifer: I'm not sure if it's an advantage, but you're right. I do definitely stand out. Females are one thing, let alone a person of color -- it's very rare. But being here at Sony, when it comes to race, there have been several people in product development that were male. But producers, artists... I've always known people of color since I've been in the industry from the test department, from the product development department, in all of the areas. So when it comes to race, it's not like I've been alone. It's fewer people, it's fewer women than men of color, of course.

Multiplayer: Why do you think there are so few African-Americans in the game industry?

Standifer: I think it's not encouraged because you still have people who think that it's not a real job. I think a lot of people don't know how to get into the industry and don't look at all the different areas in the game industry that you could work in. It's not necessarily making a game as a programmer and artist, but there's a legal staff, there's a marketing staff, there's a PR staff. There are so many entities, and I think that people don't realize that and that there are so many ways to get into the industry. And they have a lot of great ideas, and they think, "Oh it's so easy" and it's not. It's a challenge, it's definitely a challenge.

Multiplayer: Do you think that it's a challenge more specific to African-Americans and that may account for why there are so few in game development at this time?

Standifer: There's probably a couple of reasons. Not knowing what road to take to get in if they wanted to be an artist, what road do they need to focus on in school to get into the industry. And as it grows, it gets more difficult to get into. I'm not sure if they're even applying. When you're getting resumes, you don't know who's applying and who's not. I've seen a lot filtered through the QA department. But sometimes they may realize it's more work than they thought and decide that it's not an industry that they want to be in because it can require at times a lot of long hours and a lot of hard work. So it's part of educating African-Americans on the industry and figuring out what they want to do.

I run into individuals that go, "Oh, I want to make video games." And then when the question is thrown out about what they do want to do, they talk about all the game ideas but not really a specified category. Because they may not know what that road really entails or if they want to be a game designer, or if they want to be an artist, and even in the field of art there are so many areas -- there's texturing, there's modeling and etcetera. So a lot of it is the education process. And then finding ways to get into the game industry. A lot of people that come through, come through the QA department.

Multiplayer: Do you think diversity is important in the video games industry?

Standifer: I think diversity is very important in the video games industry, especially if games themselves are going to be diverse with different cultures and different characters. A lot of games are character-based and you don't want things to be offensive. And there are cases where people are not necessarily trying to be offensive, but they're pulling their ideas from their own knowledge and that does not necessarily mean it's always correct. And so sometimes it's good to have those second eyes or those other opinions or just someone to say, "Hey you may not realize it, but that could be offensive to this particular race or culture."

Multiplayer: What do you think about the way African-Americans have been presented in games? Like "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas" for instance?

Standifer: When I think of "Grand Theft Auto," that of course is not portrayed in the best light. It can look very negative to some. But at the same time you have to ask who's actually purchasing the game. Why is it so successful? I think when you start to touching on certain issues, in order for people to look at it and realize that it's having a negative impact, then the consumer has to take a stand and not purchase it.

Because if you're purchasing it, and it's selling, it gives the people making the game a feeling that it's okay because people are buying this game. I also think that controversy sells, and those are controversial titles; I think that definitely helps their sales. Because people actually want to see what is going on, and why so many people talking about this game. Any time you here a lot of hype about any title, whether it has to deal with race or anything, people tend to buy it because they hear so much about it.

Multiplayer: So do you think that portrayal of African-Americans is okay to be out there?

Standifer: My personal opinion, I don't think the representation is needed. That's my personal opinion. You can have games and not stereotype them. There are shooters out there and different games all day long but they're not stereotyped. ...

I think it shows particular races in a rather negative light. Whether or not it's okay to be out there, that's kind of very personal -- whether or not it's a game I want to be a part of. It's not something that I, per se, would want to be a part of because I think it's negative, and if I'm going to make something about my own race or other races, I would not want to point out every negative aspect.

With every race there are negative aspects and there are positives. But I would not take a stand to point out every negative about [a particular race]. And I don't think those games have issues just with race, there's killing to prostitution, etcetera. And I have heard people say it shows America in a bad light as a whole. ...

What people take away from it really depends on their mentality. And whether or not you can distinguish what is real, what is not. That's a very individual thing. I would hope for someone who is older, they would know the difference. But whether or not the 12 or 13 year-old who's playing it -- not that they should be playing it because it's rated "M" but they still play it -- that's where you could have some issues.

Multiplayer: In general, would like to see more games geared toward African-Americans?

Standifer: I don't think games should be geared necessarily towards African-Americans because once again you could isolate another audience. It's just if you're going to see representation of African-Americans you try to do it in the best light. ...

And there's always different opinions of what's great and what's not great. [Video games are] a form of art. You try to -- I don't want to say necessarily please -- but you try to think of the larger audience. There always could be some small advocate you don't appeal to.

Multiplayer: Like Nerjyzed, a company specifically making games for an urban audience. They made the "Black College Football Experience." People have argued that they are alienating certain segments of the gaming population...

Standifer: When it comes to Nerjyzed, I don't think they're alienating anyone. When you take black college football, it's very well known -- kind of like college football as a whole. When it came to the sports titles, there's "We're gonna do NFL, we're gonna do college." And they're gonna do black college. Because it's a big thing with the bands performing and etcetera and it's more than just black people who go to those games.

I don't think they're isolating. I think in that particular case they're educating. There's this whole thing that goes on around these black college games, and the battle of the bands, etcetera. So in that case it's more education, and it's another area in sports that they felt they could capitalize on because it had not been done.

Multiplayer: Do you have any advice to aspiring game designers of all races and sexes?

Standifer: In general, keep abreast on the industry. You're not going to be able to play everything out there, and I don't see anything wrong with that. For instance, I'm not big on RPGs. If it's something that you really love and like doing, you work at it like any other job. And don't let the fact that it is predominately a male environment deter you from doing your job.

Got thoughts on Felice's interview? Let us know. Check out previous interviews with Newsweek's N'Gai Croal, Crystal Dynamics' Morgan Gray and Nerjyzed's Brian Jackson. Come back tomorrow for an interview with Midway's Shana Bryant.

First, Newsweek's N'Gai Croal talked from a game journalist's point of view. Then "Tomb Raider" producer Morgan Gray shared his thoughts from the game development side at a major studio.

Today, Brian Jackson, creative design director at urban-focused upstart Nerjyzed Entertainment, gave me his perspective on working in the industry. I first met the industry veteran, who's worked at EA, Microsoft and Bethesda Softworks, at a GDC roundtable called "What Would a Black, Latin or Caribbean Game Really Look Like?"

When we spoke on the phone several weeks later, he talked about why he and his company decided to make "BCFX -- Black College Football: The Xperience":

"I feel that the other football games that were out there just put out a quality football game. As far as I could tell, they didn't want to go in any deeper than just a football game and the things that are associated with a football game, like managing stuff that's within the realm of playing the football game. With 'BCFX,' we actually made the halftime show into a mini-game. ... If you looked at the way that the schools in our game were portrayed in other video games, how they didn't really capture the essence and the spirit of black college football. ... At a HBCU game, when you're playing your rival, if you actually lose the game but your band is better then your rival's band, you actually feel as though you've won the game."

Read on to see learn more about Nerjyzed's vision, why Jackson doesn't like Jar-Jar Binks and how he almost created a hip-hop fighting game before any of the Def Jam titles.

Jackson, 38, graduated from Howard University, a historically black university, in 1992 with a degree in computer information systems. From there, he worked at GE Aerospace as a computer programmer doing testing and verification. In 1995, a friend got a message saying that Electronic Arts was looking for summer interns to test games. Using the e-mail address on the original e-mail, Jackson asked about any full-time positions available and after being flown out to EA, they made him an offer on the spot. As an assistant producer, he worked on the "Madden" and "NCAA March Madness" series. In 2001, he left EA to take a game design position at Microsoft, where he worked on "NBA Inside Drive" and "NFL Fever."

When the sports division at Microsoft went away, Jackson decided to leave, heading to Bethesda Softworks to work as a lead designer on "IHRA Drag Racing." After two years there, he got a call from a Howard University colleague about an entertainment upstart called Nerjyzed. The fledgling Baton Rouge-based company appealed to him because it was African-American-owned and focused on urban content. "And since I went to Howard University I've always wanted to work on a black college football game," Jackson told me, "and it just so happened that this was the first title that Nerjyzed was going to be doing."

Multiplayer: Can you tell me more about Nerjyzed?

Jackson: Nerjyzed was founded about five years ago. It was founded by a group of people who came together and saw the need for more African-American representation not only within the industry, but within games themselves. Our CEO was one of the original founders, Jackie Beauchamp; she's really been the person who's been the heart and soul of what Nerjyzed is. They really wanted to bring to the forefront some of the things that we do differently that don't necessarily include selling drugs or shooting people or anything like that. One thing we want to do is make sure that every game or every product that we put out has some sort of edu-tainment value. We want to make sure that we provide positive role models and positive content for the urban community.

We're not just video game company, we're a digital entertainment company. We're going to be doing things, not only video games, but also documentaries. With our game we also released a behind-the-scenes DVD that explains how we came about making the game, the history of the company and stuff like that. We also have in the works a DVD called "Historically Black," which describes the historical significance and the current relevance of historically black colleges and universities today. ... Now we're in the process of making sure that people know that Nerjyzed is not just a one-hit-wonder, and we're not just a video game company.

Multiplayer: Why did you decide to make "Black College Football: BCFX: The Xperience"? Why was that a choice for a first game?

Jackson: The HBCU experience is actually an experience. It's more than just a game because [for HBCUs], the halftime show is just as relevant as the game itself. What we noticed was that there was never a game that encompassed more than just the teams. There was never a game that had the teams, the halftime show and the overall experience that you could get when you go to the Bayou Classic or the Florida Classic.

Multiplayer: Was a sports game the first idea that came about?

Jackson: Yes, but we're not only going to be a sports video game company. That was just the first one because that's the one that made the most sense. If you looked at the way that the schools in our game were portrayed in other video games, how they didn't really capture the essence and the spirit of black college football. We want to make sure that the first game we came out with touched on something that was very near and dear to our hearts.

When you go to the Bayou Classic, you see the difference in that game in comparison to just a regular football game. You see the fans and the excitement. There's an emotional tie you have, not only to the football team, but also to the band. When you go to some of the games, a lot of people will be out tailgating and not even watching the football game itself. As soon as the countdown to the halftime show comes, the stadium will be filled.

At other footballs games at halftime, that's when most people go to the bathroom or buy food. At a HBCU game, that's where the most important thing is [during halftime]. When you're playing your rival, if you actually lose the game but your band is better then your rival's band, you actually feel as though you've won the game. Your band is the showcase of your entire school because your band represents your school.

I feel that the other football games that were out there just put out a quality football game. As far as I could tell, they didn't want to go in any deeper than just a football game and the things that are associated with a football game, like managing stuff that's within the realm of playing the football game. With "BCFX," we actually made the halftime show into a mini-game. You can actually reward your team for doing well with the halftime show. So that immerses the user into "Okay, if I do well in the halftime show, then I'll get a bonus for my team." Because they'll get the crowd into it, and they'll get the momentum on your side.

Multiplayer: What do you say to critics who say this game is alienating others by singling out black people?

Jackson: The whole concept about the game being racist is really a fallacy. The NCAA recognizes a black national champion, and right now our game is featured in the College Football Hall of Fame because they're having an exhibit on black college football. We didn't create the term "HBCU" or "black college football" -- those were things that were already in place, and we just made a game to represent what that element was.

Multiplayer: Why do you think there are so many African-Americans that play games but it doesn't seem like there are that many working in game development?

Jackson: It's interesting that you bring that up because one thing that I did notice when we were on our road tour, and even after our road tour, we went to different high schools and middle schools to show of the game and tell people about the company. We found out that kids didn't know that you could have a career in video games. They play the games all day, but it never dawned on them that there were companies that pay people to play video games all day. Whenever we were on our promotional tour or talking to young kids at schools or football games, we would tell them that if you stay in school, you can have a career in video games. If you just want to play video games, you can become a tester. If you want to create video games, you can become a programmer or designer. If you want to market or PR games, you can do that. Even if you want to be in accounting or finance, you can work for a company that does video games. It was very surprising to see that as many kids as we talked to, they just didn't realize that there could be a career in video games.

Back in 1995 when I first worked for EA, I went to E3 that they had in L.A. every year. One of the things I realized my first year was that there was only a handful of African-Americans there. With the lack of the younger African-Americans knowing they can have a career in it and the lack of the adult African-American in the industry -- there's very few African-Americans in the industry. You could tell from the roundtable that we were at. Microsoft actually has a "blacks in gaming" event every year at GDC, and I'll say there was probably between 30 and 50 people there.

Now, if you look at the number of companies, the number of people that are actually in the industry, and even if you triple the number or people that were at that event, that's still a very small amount of African-Americans. So until there are other companies like Nerjyzed that will put out product that features exclusively urban content, you're not going to get as many companies stepping out to make games like that.

Multiplayer: Do you think that the reason African-American kids didn't realize there were careers in gaming is just because there's no visibility at all in video games?

Jackson: Yes, I would agree whole-heartedly on that. Not only that, but if you pick up a video game magazine like Game Developer -- which a lot of African-Americans don't read -- if you look at the pictures and they show post-mortems of the development companies that they feature in there, there's not that many African-Americans that you'll see. So you'll never even think, "Wow I can do that, too."

When I first got into the industry, I went to college, I had a degree in computer information systems and I was working for GE as a programmer, I was an avid gamer at that point. It hadn't even dawned on me that I could do programming for games. Part of that is also because a lot of the companies that make video games are on the west coast. You won't see a lot that are in the south or northeast. If you don't grow in the Bay area, Texas or maybe the Chicago area, you might not know that you can go work for a video game company.

Multiplayer: Do you think that the diversity within the content of video games themselves would be facilitated by the diversity in game development?

Jackson: Yes. I believe that one hundred percent. The more women, African-Americans, Asian-Americans, non-Anglo-Saxons that get within the entertainment realm -- you're seeing a lot of that even within the realm of hip-hop. At first, hip-hop was just about music, graffiti, DJing and MCing. Now you're seeing some of the hip-hop artists being able to actually do more then just that side of entertainment. They can actually do movies and stuff like that. They're owning their own movie development companies. Take Master P, for example who has put out 25 to 50 movies and the majority of them have been straight to DVD. But still, he's branching out and getting that experience. Now he can bring other people in to do things of that nature as well.

Multiplayer: What do you think of the way African-Americans have been presented in games, for exmaple "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas" or the Def Jam games?

Jackson: It's interesting that you bring up the Def Jam series. When I was at EA, they were looking for another game they could make using their "Knockout Kings" boxing engine. They call it "Fight Night" now, but originally it was called "Knockout Kings." I came up with this idea that you could have a game called "Hip-Hop Kings." You could picture KRS-One versus MC Shan, Kool Moe Dee versus LL Cool J -- stuff like that. It would have been a straight boxing game, it wouldn't have been a fighting game the way it was currently. That was something that I brought up back in 1998. EA, I don't think, was ready to do a game like that.

After I left EA and I was at Microsoft, I was flipping through a magazine and I saw and advertisement for the original Def Jam game. I called a friend of mine that's now working at Nike and said, "Didn't we have this idea back in '98? Now they're doing it!" He even said, "Man, I know we pitched it, but EA just wasn't ready for it then." Now it makes sense for them to do it because they're in with Def Jam on the music side. So the game makes sense for them to do it now.

I have no problems with fighting games and games like "Grand Theft Auto." It's just like any other video game: if you take it in moderation and understand the concept of what they're trying to do, you can assess that as an adult. A video game is a video game. Playing "Grand Theft Auto" is not going to make me go out and shoot somebody.

The difference is when people try to associate it with the younger generation. The younger generation, if all they constantly see is minorities being portrayed in that role, that's all they're going to know. That's why I have a problem with it. If there are games that show minorities in a positive light and if there are games that are in not such a positive light, as long as there's a balance, I'm okay with that. And as long as the parents of these kids are taking the time and saying, "You're a 10 year-old, there's no reason why you should be playing a game that's 'T-13', there's no reason you should be playing a game that's 'mature.'" That falls back on the parents.

I don't fault Take-Two for making "Grand Theft Auto." I don't fault them at all. The American society today is all about sex, drugs and money. That's the whole premise of "Grand Theft Auto." I don't fault them as a company for doing it; I would rather the parents police their kids if they play it.

Multiplayer: You're talking about the series in general, but CJ in "San Andreas" -- do you think that says something to people about African-Americans?

Jackson: That's just an extreme example. There wasn't really a big stir about it when Star Wars did it -- when Star Wars did Jar-Jar Binks and you could pretty much tell his voice was supposed to be an African-American-sounding character. And he was very illiterate, he made dumb decisions, he was the goof or clown, and no one really made a big deal about it.

Multiplayer: I think because appearance-wise they could just brush it off with, "He's an alien." But CJ from "Grand Theft Auto" was clearly...

Jackson: Yeah, I understand that. But once again I also go back to if it's a 10 year-old playing the game, he shouldn't be playing the game. If it's a 15 year-old playing the game he should know better. His parents should have explained to him that it's just a video game.

Multiplayer: Just for my clarification and understanding -- you're saying you're okay with the way CJ was represented in "Grand Theft Auto," but it's up to the parents, or a person's upbringing, to understand that real-life violence is wrong and not all African-Americans are running around doing what CJ's doing?

Jackson: Well, I wouldn't say I'm okay with it! What I have a problem with is African-Americans being portrayed in a negative light in any form of media. If it's the news -- when Katrina hit down here in Louisiana it was "African-Americans were looting, white-Americans were just trying to survive." It's things like that. If they're given a fair shake, then I'm with seeing the way they're portrayed because that's what actually happened.

In video games, there isn't a balance of "this is what this African -American does and this is what this African-American does." It seems that there are always the African-Americans that are portrayed -- especially CJ in "Grand Theft Auto" -- this is what he does, this is how he is and this is a reflection of all African-Americans. When it's portrayed as this is a reflection of all African-Americans then that's where I have my biggest problem.

In certain areas like north Philadelphia or south central L.A., there are things that actually happen like that in real life. If I'm going to be blind to that, then I too am wrong in being blind to that side of it. But, if that's the only way they're being portrayed -- and they are portrayed that this is the way all African-Americans are -- then that's what I have a problem with.

If it's a younger person playing the game that doesn't have any knowledge of how African-Americans are in general, and that's the only image they are always being portrayed as -- if they're watching music videos and all they're seeing is African-American women shaking their booties, then they're going to have that picture of that's all an African-American woman is. When it's presented in that way, and they're fed the only image that they know of how that particular individual, gender or race is, then I have a problem with that. But "Grand Theft Auto" being played by a 30 year-old that's been around per se, and can tell the difference that this is just a character in a video game that symbolizes where this person is and where this person is living, then it's a little different.

Multiplayer: So you're saying it depends on who's playing it and how they interpret it.

Jackson: Exactly. I have nothing against the game itself. I'm not an advocate of the game, and I don't have any malcontent towards the company that actually made the game. The problem I have is that if the actual game itself is being target towards the younger generation. Which clearly it wasn't because the ESRB stepped in. As long as the parents are policing the games that their kids are playing, then I really don't have a problem with that particular game.

Multiplayer: You're obviously already working on games for African-Americans, but what kind of games in general would you like to see for African-Americans across the board?

Jackson: Me personally, being that I've done a whole lot of sports games and when I was at Bethesda Softworks I got a chance to work on "Oblivion" which was an RPG -- to me it's not really about a genre. It's about what the game can provide to the African-American community. That's probably the biggest reason I came to Nerjyzed. When I found out that every game we come out with is going to have some sort of edu-tainment value. If we can lure the kids in with an emotional, evoking, fun video game, we can teach them at the same time. They can learn different things about the African-American community. They can learn about the different things that happened over the last 2,000 years. That would be something that I want to bring with Nerjyzed to the forefront. It's not really about the specific genre of the game, it's what we can bring to the community is what I'm trying to express.

Multiplayer: What's next for Nerjyzed?

Jackson: Well, we haven't announced what our new product line is but I can say this: there will be some more games in the future that are of the sports genre. "BCFX" was successful and as a company we do plan on continuing that product line whether it's this year or the next year. We also have some other titles that are non-sports related but are heavily competitive. And every game that Nerjyzed puts out will have an urban flair to it, but it will be fun for anyone who picks up the controller.

Got thoughts on Brian’s interview? Let us know. You can also read previous interviews with Newsweek’s N’Gai Croal and Crystal Dynamics' Morgan Gray. Check back tomorrow for an interview with Sony producer Felice Standifer.

Croal's interview is part of a special week-long series called "Black Professionals in Games." Today the series continues with Morgan Gray, Senior Producer at Crystal Dynamics. The 31 year-old San Francisco native, who's half-black and half-Caucasian, is a seasoned gamer who's tired of being the regular white guy:

"I am sick of playing the average white dude character. And I'm sick of playing a black stereotype. ... As a player I want to have more experiences other than the futuristic super soldier white guy to the unlikely hero white guy. There's that line where you're playing you, and you're playing the character. It's sort of like, are you behind the character pushing? Are you holding hands with the character in your mind? And for me, I'd like to get more of relating to this character."

And here he is on one of the most popular characters from "Gears of War":

"Here's the thing: Cole Train on his own, no harm no foul. But what is Cole Train? Cole Train is basically like every other effin' black character in a video game. Like here comes the urban stereotype. Where is this 1990's -- not even 2000 -- black slang, where does this fit in this futuristic world that doesn't even take place on Earth? They go really far to do a lot of fictional justifications for this culture that they've built, and they go right back to this urban stereotype for the black character.

I'm not knocking Epic; the game was fun and gorgeous. But it's just a lack of thought, right? All it does is reinforce dumb stereotypes and it sort of reinforces casual racism."

Read on for Gray's thoughts on how game developers can increase social awareness and diversity, black characters in Japanese games and why "GTA: San Andreas" was "scary."

Although Gray majored in History and Philosophy, he got his start in game development as a QA tester at LucasArts in the mid-'90s. After showing off some "Warcraft" maps and "Doom" levels he made, he got a job as a level designer at Totally Games working on "Star Wars: X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter," "Star Wars: X-Wing Alliance" and "Star Trek: Bridge Commander." Then following a brief period at Cinemaware as a designer, Gray came back to Totally on the production side, where he worked on "Secret Weapons Over Normandy." Finally, he came to Crystal Dynamics in 2004 doing production on "Project: Snowblind," and then "Tomb Raider: Legend." Since then he's worked on business development mainly centered on the "Tomb Raider" franchise.

Multiplayer: You've had some experience developing games. Have you ever felt that your race presented any advantages or disadvantages in your career?

Gray: Not as far as disadvantages go. Not really, since I pretty much stayed in development, and development is sort of a hodge-podge. No matter however you slice it, everyone's sort of an outcast in a way. None of us are 90210, you know? [laughs] There are different degrees of coolness and hipness but none of us are being voted most popular in high school. We were all doing something different from the norm, which is cool by me. I'm not saying we were total geeks or anything but we definitely were not the Abercrombie and Fitch crew growing up. In dev, I would say it's been a little neutral. I don't think it's been a negative or a positive.

I think any sort of negatives would come from -- there’s not a lot of black folks in games. I used to joke that I can't wait to go to E3 and see all five of them and hang out [laughs]. It's a little different now. I think the disadvantages are just the general society ones. I'm black -- well I’m half-black technically but -- I'm black, I'm 6'3", so people can misread sort of like dominance plays or intimidation because I'm a big guy. ...

I think outside of dev, in the PR realm of promoting projects and meeting with fans, I think it comes as a surprise to a lot of people. Like "Wow." I think when people think of games they think of Japanese cats, they think of white cats. They just assume. I think that meeting different people from the press for the first time or public exhibitions of the game some people are like, "Wow, okay." I think maybe if I was working for a Japanese company, it could probably be more of a difference. I'm sure at some point we'll talk about my thoughts on the portrayal of black people in Japanese games. [laughs] I think it's been a mix of being focused in dev and working exclusively in the San Francisco area, which is pretty mellow. All things considered it's not like the deep South, and just maybe being lucky. I don't think [my race] been too much of a plus or minus.

Multiplayer: So you feel your race hasn't played a factor either way?

Gray: I think it's hard for me to tell. I think some people could assume there's some cool PR-ing going on it, like here's this black dude and "there's a story there." Or here's this white guy who has a hundred percent equal skill and talent. But at an E3 lineup where you have all this press, [a black person] may stand out more because he looks different. It hasn't really been overt like, "Wow, I'm getting hooked up 'cause I'm brown" or "I'm being held back." Maybe it's because the game industry or the dev side of things is still so young that that kind of crap really hasn't entered into play much -- so no. I'm assuming women have it tougher, just like they do in society in general, but you know... [laughs]

Multiplayer: Why do you think there aren't as many African-Americans in game development?

Gray: Drives me crazy, drives me crazy. I think as a point of pride you can say beyond a shadow of a doubt African-American folk have always embraced the entertainment arts and have done extremely well and set trends -- whether it was music or dance or athletics. ... African-Americans are big consumers of [video games]; they should take a role in making them. For starters, I think within the past four or five years, there's been an emphasis in the role of academics to show pathways and doorways into games. Whether it's game-specific colleges or programs like Carnegie Mellon's master's program. It's just people didn't know how to get into games. When I got into games it was like, "Well, how do you get into games?" You stumble through QA, or maybe you're doing something in art that would lead you through the door, and maybe you would go through design there. The programming guys had the easiest shot. It was just an unknown. Even [Shigeru Miyamoto] was an artist. He got a shot to draw a crazy gorilla one day, so it was just random.

I think across the board for everyone, no one really knew how to get into it. I think that was the diminishing factor. I think the lack of emphasis on the broad spectrum on how games were made means that people don't really understand the various roles people can play. It's not just programming. It's not just art. All these disciplines, there's so many ways to get in. In creation of games there are 50, 60-plus person teams. Down to sound engineering, you'd think there would be more transfer over from guys working on their beats down in the garage, and they'd want to apply that to video games. Maybe there hasn't been a lot of advocacy, that your passion and your skills can lead you to this path. I was at the "blacks in gaming" event at GDC. Each year it gets bigger and bigger but it's still like, "Wow, this is still kind of small." We need to think broader. I just don't think the information is getting out there, probably specifically to the black youth in terms of what can be done. Or like, "Hey, you know you frickin' love 'Soul Calibur.' You know how that this algebra stuff that you hate now in class applies to you working on cool games like this?" I don't know if the connections are being broadcast well enough in general and specifically, too.

Multiplayer: What do you think would be the solution for that?

Gray: I think when you have programs like what EA is doing, like the "Madden Challenge" program, I think a little more exposes that move out of PR hyping the product and more in just lifting the veil on the game industry. Like some more features on web pages talking about game development just in the nuts and bolts side of things. "These are dev teams, these are the different roles people play." I think when you see unlocks in games that are all "making of" videos, those are great right? There's one half that you're pandering for your product but there's another half like, "Wow, I didn't know that games' sound engineers did full work like they do in the movies." I think that people have more of an understanding of what people do in movies than in games. But then again who knows what a key grip is, right? What does the best boy really do? It's just kind of hidden. So I think getting it out there in web stuff, getting some more on TV whether it's Spike, G4, Cartoon Network that showcase game development. ...

But I just think that more programs like that, more stuff into games that talk about how the game is made, not what the game is about. And obviously they're doing stuff at a college level. I think applied curriculum even at a high school level would be good like, "Hey, here's a little virtual project. Let's take the new XNA game base that Microsoft put out there for free." Have people do little mini game projects, and maybe even stretch the term game. "Let's make mini electronic entertainment." Because museum installation stuff, there's many overlaps there. Get a group of people, take something virtual, create an experience and the earlier age you can do that, the better. ... More stuff like that hitting African-Americans in venues where they get this information. Maybe it's advocacy, maybe it's going out and speaking in classrooms. Maybe it's the after-school program aspects. I'd love to see more corporate sponsorship. It seems that corporations are more than happy to put a basketball into someone's hand -- how about a math degree? Why not? [laughs]

Multiplayer: That seems like a great solution. At GDC, Sony Online Entertainment announced a scholarship for women aspiring to work in game development. But I remember there was some criticism about how it singles women out, how it's sexist against men. I'd imagine that scholarships based on race would also garner that kind of criticism...

Gray: Is the alternative that you don't reach out to anyone? That's unacceptable. I think -- and I obviously don't have the mathematical data on hand for this -- but I think if you look at the broad spectrum of scholarship offerings, you would find that males and/or white males are far from underrepresented in terms of their options. [laughs]

Multiplayer: And if you look at the bigger picture, it's clear to see that women and racial minorities are underrepresented in the industry.

Gray: In the industry and in the end product. Both sides of things, and anything that gets more people playing games -- I dream of a world where the concept of games equals that of TV, that it's socially acceptable for everyone of every age rage to sit and use this box for their entertainment purposes across a variety of content. From the games we have today to the "where's the Food Network game" experience, or the gardening game experience. Where it's a virtual experience for all the stuff that people do right now. I also secretly wish for the day there is a President in the White House that uses games as his chief source of entertainment. I think we're like 10 to 15 years away from that, but that's gonna be awesome.

Multiplayer: Is diversity important in the video games industry?

Gray: Yes. Well, first I'll answer as a player. I am sick of playing the average white dude character. I'm just done with it. And I'm sick of playing a black stereotype. So one, people are always saying, "There aren't a lot of black video game characters." And I'm like, "What are you talking about? 'Madden' and 'NBA '08' man." [laughs] "Crackdown" made me smile. He's a cop. I mean, he's all future urban but he's a cop and he's black, and even though you can select from like 16 different characters they picked the black dude as their one [to represent the game]. He never talked, he never had a real characterization to him, so I was like "thumbs up." ...

But as a player I want to have more experiences other than the futuristic super soldier white guy to the unlikely hero white guy. There's that line where you're playing you, and you're playing the character. It's sort of like, are you behind the character pushing? Are you holding hands with the character in your mind? And for me, I'd like to get more of relating to this character. But the fear is that if the industry is dominated by white cats, then the characterization is going to be extremely shallow and extremely one-dimensional. Because when the public thinks about African-Americans, the norm is they get what the news feeds them. "For the black reaction, let's go to the ghetto. For the white reaction, lets go to Beverly Hills." [laughs] Why not go to the trailer park for that reaction? And anyone who doesn’t fit that mold is considered an exception. Which is like whoa, whoa, whoa -- perhaps you should have the understanding that, outside of race and culture, economics is pretty much the determining factor for a lot of people's lives. But without that understanding, it's always going to be, "Here comes that street-smart pimp archetype." And here comes the attempt at breaking norms like, "Here's this black guy, he's super awkward, no athletic ability and he's a super genius." Like where's just the rounded cat? There’s not reason that Marcus Fenix in "Gears of War" couldn't have been a black guy. Like there's no reason that you can't just take any character -- like Gordon Freeman could have been a black guy. Easily. He doesn’t talk!

Multiplayer: That's funny that you say that. I actually wrote an opinion article about avatars and how if it doesn't affect the story then why not create a choice or just throw in something else just to see what it would be like?

Gray: Yeah, if there's zero fictional impact, why not? Why not as a default, why not as an option? And I'm not knocking Valve. Because they have a black scientist and his biracial daughter. That's another thing -- we need to see more biracial stuff. I have to give props to "Bioshock" for its little hidden gem at the end of that. It made me spit out my coffee playing the game in the morning. I called my wife into the room and said, "Look, it's us!" [laughs] But yeah, from a player's standpoint, I'd like to see more options. I would like to have more chance for expression. Like "Mass Effect," [I was] Morgan Shepard, one of a couple million Shepards that existed. It was cool that I got to make him a little brown.

Multiplayer: Yeah, and I'm Tracey Shepard. So why do you think diversity is important from the development standpoint?

Gray: From the development standpoint ... When guys were first doing games way back in their garages in like the '70s and '80s, the sky was the limit. Anything they did could be new. "We could do a game about a frog crossing a freeway -- sweet! How about delivering papers? Sweet!" If I went to pitch a game right now that was all about delivering newspapers, I'd be laughed out of the room. But [back then], it was like whatever they could virtually simulate, they were going for it. Then us developers, we all played that stuff growing up, so we started putting spins on it and evolving; trying to do more world simulations that they couldn't dream of before, but basically using the lexicon of what came before us to inform our decisions. So now we're here in 2008. I'm a little worried that we're running the risk of derivative games because for most of us, we're bringing outside world things and trying to make them into games. Now we're getting into a place where people are bringing games in to make games. Where's the crazy innovation there? The guy who is a great visual artist who doesn't know how to paint. That's not as good as the guy who knows how to paint who then learns a tool like Maya and applies that foundation of art skills. Because then this becomes self-referential.

And I think in terms of cultural and gender input, that plays a factor in it, too. If we're just constantly going to be suburban white guys, then it's gonna become pretty limiting. And it's always obvious whenever you see the big examples of mixing things up. You get better games and broader experiences. I think Maxis is probably leading the charge at this with its games and its emphasis on women and being family-friendly, both pre- and post- EA buying them up. I just think you get a chance for broader experiences, and I think you get a better understanding of sensitivities, too. "You don't see why that's offensive? Well let me tell you, and if you don't like this, now it's no longer offensive, even cooler." It broadens the information pool at the developers' disposal, and I think it ends up as a better end product especially since we're not in a place like Hollywood where we can do a lot of focus tests because generally, we can't focus test until our game is in decent shape. At which point publishers generally want to rip it from our hands and put it on the shelf. [laughs]

Multiplayer: Before you mentioned "Gears of War." Did the Cole Train character bother you at all?

Gray: Here's the thing: Cole Train on his own, no harm no foul. But what is Cole Train? Cole Train is basically like every other effin' black character in a video game. Like here comes the urban stereotype. Where is this 1990's -- not even 2000 -- black slang, where does this fit in this futuristic world that doesn't even take place on Earth? They go really far to do a lot of fictional justifications for this culture that they've built, and they go right back to this urban stereotype for the black character. I'm not knocking Epic; the game was fun and gorgeous. But it's just a lack of thought, right? All it does is reinforce dumb stereotypes and it sort of reinforces casual racism. It's almost like, "Cue the drum beat, here comes the black character." It's f--king Arnold from "Good Times." [laughs] So I think if the dev teams, and marketing teams and PR teams teams were more diverse, and better thought was given towards staying true to their fictional narrative, that once you say you're in the future and you're in this alien world, is this really how this person is going to talk? When can we have the black guy that walks on to the screen that doesn't sound like the black guy? [laughs] Can he just be "the guy"? In "Halo 3" there's the black Sarge. He's fine, he's the military archetype, but that's great. That's what the game is about. Here's a bunch of military stereotypes in the future.

Multiplayer: To play devil's advocate here, you say diversity in games is important but the norm is to appeal to the broadest audience possible, which may account for all these stereotypes. Yet, the video games industry is doing well and making money. So what if someone said, "If it ain't broke don't fix it?"

Gray: Well, the thing is, does fixing break it? Yeah, we're making great money. Why don't we try to better our our science-slash-business-slash-art? Because it's like the three parts of game development. It's doing great and it wants to appeal to the broadest audience. So, I think, we're all youngish people, none of us are fire-and-brimstone old die-hards and things. Why not use our medium to push social consciousness, social awareness? Why not try to make society better? People are always talking about how we're negatively influencing the youth. F--k them. [laughs] The dude at home playing games is probably better off [playing games] than doing any other activity I did as a kid. [laughs] But why don't we use it as a vehicle to do [push social awareness]? Why don't we use it as a vehicle to more accurately reflect the real world? We make more money than Hollywood, we're pushing boundaries. But our narratives couldn't even hold up to what people consider trite narratives on any primetime TV show. We still rely on old stereotypes, run-of-the-mill archetypes, retelling the same basic story premises -- and of course, one could argue that there are only five stories. Comic books are doing more in terms of narrative than our industry does as a whole. So I feel we [get] bonus points for interactivity. We totally own that way more than a comic book. But our narratives and our universes, it's still amateur hour and I just think we could be doing more. We need a great mix of our summer blockbuster hits and our Oscar movies, and we don't have enough Oscar movies. And I think we can have -- using Saving Private Ryan -- we can have our summer blockbuster Oscar-winning movie, too. A lot of s--t blows up and the story-telling is not trite. Except of course Spielberg has some triteness to it, pulling the heart strings, but he pulls them so well, we love him for it. So yeah, that’s where I stand. It's not about broadening the audience or making more money. It's about why can't we be more creative, more mature and grow up.

Multiplayer: But it seems that publishers want to stick with the same formula -- sequel after sequel or licenses -- so how does a developer try to foster these new ideas?

Gray: I don't know per se that publishers want to stick to the same formula. The end thing is that any character or narrative that you do needs to be accessible. It can't be really aloof. We can't do Fellini movie games yet, probably. They just want a game that's fun, and they want it on budget and on time. I think developers, and the developers' vision, is a bigger limiting factor than publishers -- not that I'm a big publisher apologist or anything. But generally, they just care about the main character. So I guess step one is for supporting cast -- can we get better at that? And we can give them what they want for the main character; really, they care about the visuals of the main character. What does he or she look like? That's the big thing. How can we market this? How can we plaster this image over every magazine and website banner ad? But in terms of the actual story, they don't really care that much. Because really, they're like, "How does the story lead you into the next room to get a great screenshot? And be fun?" So if assuming we're getting the fun part right, there should be broader freedom with the game. So on "Tomb Raider: Legend," obviously Eidos cares about the story line, they want it to be quality. There wasn't so much of an interest in the secondary characters or any of the plot nuance. It was, "What's the elevator pitch to the story so we can understand it? And make sure we feel it resonates from a brand message and how do we message this out?" It's really just on the high level. And on a high level in games, we're not doing so great, we're not doing so bad. Most of us aren't shooting for the stars. Many that do fall on their face, and maybe that's a good thing. But the details of the story, the nuts-and-blots, the guts of it, it's pretty much developer freedom.

Multiplayer: Clearly, you as a developer are ready to diversify game development but do you think gamers are ready to see this change?

Gray: Why not? I mean, first we got to think in the context of we're in our little imperialistic bubble called America, right? But there's a big-ass world out there. [laughs] There's a broad world out there, a lot of different cultures. Even outside of race and class, we're already dealing with different cultures of gamers consuming the same product. I think gamers already are super diverse. If you look at the number of different -- we'll take ["World of Warcraft"]. "WoW" has -- I can't even remember how many different subscribers. I think they're just making their own money down south now. I think they have their own printing press.

Multiplayer: I think they have 10 million...

Gray: Yeah, Jesus. If you look at the player base, and you look at aside from what you'd expect like, "I'm a dark elf." Because dark elves are like ninjas everyone wants to be a dark elf which is cool. People aren't playing the human class. It's gnomes, it's dwarves. If people are willing to express themselves or play around in their avatar or their identity with fantasy creatures, why wouldn't they do it with actual humans and play around? I think in "Counter-Strike," you often see the black character model. I know there's not that many black people playing. [laughs] I think people are having fun. I think there's the dark side, some people personify a stereotype when they play it. Obviously, "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas" was a celebration of that. I don't think it bugs people.

I think what bugs people is when "I can't find an avatar" or "I'm being presented an avatar that I can't relate to." And maybe that's surface level on the skin and look, and maybe that's characterization. Like, "Man, I don't want to play this dude, he's whiny." [laughs] I think that's the central core. The easy fix is to provide options, provide player-created avatars. The more difficult fix is if there's a story and a narrative that you want to tell. It's like anything -- make a way for people to relate your character regardless of whether they have the same skin color or the same sex organs. And that's a challenge movies face all the time. Because you have a physical human being and yet somehow you have millions of different people to buy in and so that is more of a narrative problem than it is a visual problem.

Multiplayer: You mentioned "San Andreas." My next question was "What do you think of the way African-Americans have been portrayed in games?"

Gray: Oh man... So "GTA III," -- a Mafioso stereotype with a huge amount of cinema fiction to support that. It's sort of a cultural joke. We all know that Italians aren't like that but we know Mafioso gangsters are. Do we remove race from it? No, they're just gangsters. "Vice City" is just '80s "Miami Vice." So even with the Cubanos and Latinos we know all Cubanos aren't like that. "San Andreas" gets scary because it's basically what people think black people are. Like obviously not everyone is Tupac, not everyone is like N.W.A. gun-toting. But the greater society still said -- I guess maybe there's not enough time between the height of gangster rap and that game. Because it basically affirms society's present belief that all urban black guys are just like this. I don't think the global expectation that all Italian people are mafiosos has existed since the '30s. But it did at that time. And if ["Grand Theft Auto III"] came out at that time, it'd be a hundred percent "Yup! It's just a game about the Italian guys." So that's just the risk, the scary thing for "San Andreas" in that it's too soon and it's too close and it's going to be consumed by people with no proper filter, right? There are already a bunch of suburban kids trying to emulate this fantasy that came from rap music. It's a fantasy -- Dr. Dre came from a middle class home. These guys were making money, they were making product. The real guys, the real OGs, probably not so glamorous. [laughs] A little scarier actually.

But the fantasy world, it just reaffirms their thinking and now they're playing it, and there's no way to parse the parody aspects, the subtle commentary. I'm not saying Rockstar is a bunch of racist evil dudes, but other games are like: here are a bunch of stereotypes, both cultural and racial and we're going to embrace them, lampoon them, parody them, overemphasize them. "Grand Theft Auto" represents the world that should not be. [laughs] Like it's the worst of us, right? But I don't think when it comes to "San Andreas," that people are going to be able to parse that because it was so close to their perception of the real world instead of knowing it was pure playland. So that's where that game kind of scares me a little bit because this is doing more harm than good.

From a gameplay standpoint: "Great, like why did I have to start off on that freakin' bicycle?" [laughs] I hated that part. So far ["San Andreas"] is the only "Grand Theft Auto" that I didn't beat because if I have to hear one more "nigger" drop out of someone's mouth knowing it was penned by a bunch of white cats -- I'm like I'm done here. I can't play this; I'm feeling filthy. So that's my thing with "San Andreas." I'm not saying it's a bad game; I'm saying without the proper tools to understand what's really going on there, it's just risky at what people's takeaway will be.

Multiplayer: Speaking of what people take away from things, the "Resident Evil 5" trailer. Have you seen it?

Gray: Yeah! Absolutely not racist. Zombies in Haiti? Hmm. I think they're gonna be brown. If we were going to do a zombie game in China: wow, a lot of Chinese zombies. I think it's just the "Here's the bunch of people that are primitive," which is actually the elephant in the room, and the racist perceptions. ... But it takes place in Haiti, home of the zombie, right? No one complained -- where was the outcry for the poor Spanish villagers in "Resident Evil 4"? I guess no one noticed that in previous "Resident Evil" games? They were hard to tell because they’re pretty stylized as zombies, but they're pretty much all white people in this mansion. I mean Raccoon City was in middle America. ... I think the reaction to that is the wrong reaction. I think the bigger outcry is why once again don't we have a black lead character in a "Resident Evil" game? How about that first? Here's another white cat. Hell, where's the Asian dude in a "Resident Evil" game? It's always white guy/white girl.

Multiplayer: I think some people just didn't feel comfortable with the imagery it invoked, like they saw it as like a military man going in...

Gray: Going in and taking out all of these indigenous people?

Multiplayer: Yeah.

Gray: Well, I love zombie lore; I'm a fan of everything zombie. I don't know if you read Max Brooks' "World War Z"?

Multiplayer: Yes, I have.

Gray: That book was like a Bible to me. I mean, that's always the parallel with the zombies, right? The zombie story is all about modern technology versus primitive hopelessness, right? Like the Vietnam parallel. Here comes a badass with everything at your disposal, and it doesn't matter because these things are just a force of nature. You might as well be fighting a wave. When you look at current zombie cinema, it's kind of like that. It's like, "Hey, I've got everything I need." And these primitive things come at him and the lead hero gets f--ked. Because in the best zombie fiction and even in the "Resident Evil" series, you never win -- you delay, you never win. So making the military parallel -- honestly, there are countries at war right now, it makes people sensitive. But if they’re making that parallel and going that route like maybe war looks like this and the military comes in and f--ks up indigenous people, it might make them think, "Yeah, maybe real war is not so good. " Still -- it's zombies. I think you can get over-sensitive about it. I think if it was like "Resident Evil 4" in the ghetto or something and the zombies were doing hip-hop dancing, I'd be like, "Oh God no." But everything I've seen so far doesn't make me feel like the guys at Capcom are not treating the subject matter correctly. There may some type of crazy Japanese storytelling techniques but nothing struck me as offensive. I thought the reaction was misplaced and there are other things that people could and should be outraged about.

Multiplayer: At the beginning of the interview, you did mention Japanese games in general...

Gray: Yeah. I'm a fan of anime, manga and obviously Japanese video games. So the first thing is that the Japanese story aesthetic is just different from the Western. How they do character and how they do their story is different. So everyone will laugh like, "Yeah, that was really weird." But that’s sort of the Japanese thing to do, right? Like in a role-playing game here comes a 10-minute dialogue. Or in "Metal Gear" -- "Let me tell you about my childhood in Croatia." "What?" I thought we were fighting? Okay, commence your talking." So that's weird. But their take on black folks in games has generally been poor. It's either been here's this '70s pimp, here's ultra hip-hop dude, or here's a straight-up thug. F--king Barret in "Final Fantasy VII" -- they put a gun on the guy's arm. It's just like, "Yeah, black guy with built-in gun." Okay, that's really, really weird. So it's generally been s--t characterizations that are way racist or way just hokey racist. Maybe that's where they get the [pass] because coming from a different culture it's so laughable. And it's like wow, nobody does that soul brother '70s stuff anymore. I don't know anyone who uses the phrase "dig." [laughs] But it's a double whammy of cultural ignorance coming from a different society than ours mixed with a wrong scale in the timeline. But it's not like the Japanese cats -- hip-hop is big out there. And to use the example from manga and anime and the game side of things, every character is a little hokey. And when it comes to black stereotyped characters, they're extra hokey. Except Barret and the gun arm, I'm like, "Yeah. No." And I guess Mr. T with the Priceline commercials are up there; there's a whole lot of Mr. T in Japanese games. Or even Balrog. It's just like "ugh."

And there's like zero, zero black women in these games. I don't know how black people breed in these worlds, but I'm assuming they'd be getting progressively lighter over time because there's no black women there. [laughs]

Multiplayer: [laughs] I think people can argue though that these are classic characters that you're knocking, and what you see in these characters is what you don't see in the "Resident Evil 5" trailer.

Gray: No, they can totally make that argument and they'd be valid. Because really what's offensive is in the eye of who gets offended, right? I'm just saying I saw a marketplace, and I saw zombies that happened to be brown. In "Resident Evil," I'm like fine, so here come the indigenous zombies because we're not in middle America. So it didn't really give me -- and who knows, I could play the game, and I could see a horrible black-on-black crime making each other zombies or look at all these poor devolved people, and even the ones that aren't infected are devolved. Then I'd be like, "Oh man, that's not so hot." [laughs] But the trailer alone… I don't really see it on this one. I think Cole Train bothers me more. [laughs]

Multiplayer: Stereotypes aside, so what games would you like to see for African-Americans and the population at large?

Gray: Well, for starters like we said before, I'd like to see where there's no need to worry about fiction or narrative or alienating people on those. Like why not see more African-American lead characters? I'd love to see more African-American characters. I'd love to see more secondary characters that don't reinforce the hip, urban stereotype. Where you would think there would be a big overlap -- like everyone loves "Rock Band," everyone likes "Guitar Hero" -- where is more music that also appeals to a black demographic for these games? Like where is The Roots for "Rock Band"? They play live instrumentation. Where's The Roots download pack? That sounds like a no brainer, right? Everyone in the world likes that game. ...

For games that allow avatar generation, more key art that shows that. "The Sims" does a really good job of showing a pan-cultural/sexual world. It's not like they have, "Here's our key Sim." They sort of have a bunch of Sims. "Mass Effect," they picked the Shepard, and I like it because they were trying to make a story for a role-playing game, and they had a character they could relate to. "Mass Effect" did kind of a good job too. "Mass Effect" totally respected its fiction in that we're in the future, there's a whole lot of nice ethnic people from different backgrounds getting busy and making kids and everyone is gonna sort of look like a hodge-podge. For the most part, with their humans they totally respected that. And they sort of took out racism and used xenophobia which I thought was a great sort-of analogy to racism now sort of with the female human character. But I think more of that. And I think you know what? Not even make a big deal about [race]. Just like, "Oh, the character is black."

Robert Heinlein did something with "Starship Troopers" -- the book, don't talk about the movie -- but the book, it was genius. So you read this whole book and you read this whole story. You go with this character from high school to boot camp to wars. You get this character, you fall in love. In the last three pages, he says one line that made me completely re-evaluate the book and value the book even more. He said, "It's nice to speak in my native Tagalog." And I'm like, "This dude is Filipino?" He just didn't make a big deal out of it. I just assumed it was a white guy in the future. And that kind of thing, can we not make a big deal about it? And games still seem to make a big deal out of it.

Multiplayer: Just slip it in there...

Gray: Yeah, just put it in there. And bam, there it is. And that's the most mature way you can do it. We spend way too much time -- this is funny because I work on "Tomb Raider" -- we spend way too much time on our characters, when all the character really is is a tool used to interact and explore the world, and the player is really the one we should be talking to, not the character. I know this odd because I work in "Tomb Raider" [laughs] which is super character-focused. But we need to spend less time on our avatars and more time on our game worlds.

Got thoughts on Morgan's interview? Let us know. Read yesterday's interview with Newsweek's N'Gai Croal, and check back tomorrow for an interview with Nerjyzed Entertainment's Brian Jackson.

Throughout my conversations in the special week-long series, we also spoke about diversity in general; all kinds of people play games, but it doesn't seem that all kinds of people make them. This idea led me to my latest series where I talked with several black professionals working in the industry. They reflected on their personal experiences, talked about diversity and shared their hopes for the future of the industry.

First, I sat down with prominent games journalist N'Gai Croal, General Technology Editor at Newsweek (and friend to Multiplayer). In his tiny, video game-filled office, the Canadian-born, 35 year-old told me his career in journalism began in part because of race. A writer for the Stanford University newspaper during his undergraduate years, Croal once wrote a column criticizing Newsweek's cover story about gangster rap. Soon afterwards, the then editor-in-chief of the weekly news magazine contacted Croal about his column and offered him an internship. Croal didn't accept at the time, but after a brief stint at The Washington Post, he's worked at Newsweek ever since.

We spoke about everything from his career to his thoughts on specific video games ("Gears of War," "GTA: San Andreas") to how diversity could benefit the industry...

Multiplayer: That's funny you say that race got you started in your career. But have you ever felt it presented any challenges during your career?

Croal: Well, I don't know. In a way, my take on an incident that had to do with race sort of got Newsweek to be aware or interested in me. But I was a good writer in college. I knew nothing about reporting. Everything I learned about reporting I learned at Newsweek. ... But as far as race affecting my career here, I have to think about that. I mean, I would say the main challenge of advancing in any organization is mentorship, right? How much are you mentored and guided? Because there are some jobs where it's pretty set and as long as your reviews are clean and you're hitting very objective marks, you're going to get promoted and advanced. Journalism is not really like that. A lot of fields aren't like that. It really depends on the mentorship that you have. A lot of times mentorship gets doled out based on who people feel they relate to, who people sort of see themselves in. It also depends on the person. Is the junior person smart enough actually to seek out mentors? I don't think I was that smart. I would say for most of my career, I wasn't really mentored in my chain of command. There were people outside of my chain of command who were definitely informal mentors and advised and helped me through a lot of my early career. To what extent that race plays a part in that is hard to tell. It's very difficult. I can't really be sure about that.

As far as professionally, as far as the people I've had to deal with, a lot of it has to do with the name on the front of the jersey not the name on the back, right? So whenever I step into some sort of professional situation, I work for Newsweek, which is recognized the world over. So that sort of smooths out a lot of things that needs to be smoothed out. Even when I was starting in '94 -- well '95 really -- and the dot-com thing was starting to happen, a lot of those places like Newsweek, was a place they really wanted to get into so they can reach the mainstream. I never had problems that I can attribute to race because of it. Even if there were something to emerge, I think the fact that I worked at Newsweek made a difference, and I think that's also true for games.

Multiplayer: Do you feel there are any advantages? Do you feel you stand out more because of your race?

Croal: Well, there are relatively few of us. So I guess in that sense I stand out. But I think also I stand out because of my dreads. [laughs] I stand out because I work for Newsweek. ... [Working for Newsweek] opened a lot of doors. I know that's not really what you're asking, but in terms of race I don't think I found a particular advantage or disadvantage. Professionally I think there is a perspective I have but I wouldn't attribute it solely to race. I would say that I'm -- and I hate to use a big word -- but I'd say that I'm a liminal person; people who exist along boundaries or lines sort of in between spaces.

My parents are from Guyana, South America. I was born in Canada. I lived a little bit of my life -- when I was two to when I was five -- in Guyana. I studied French for 10 years. I grew up in Canada. I moved to the United States for college. I've lived in California, D.C., and now in New York. I work at a mainstream magazine covering a niche subject within that magazine. So there's a way in which I have all of these different perspectives. I'm a black, Canadian immigrant living in the United States of Guyanese descent, right? So there are all of these things that I've seen and done and by virtue of how I came into covering this, starting out writing about arts and entertainment, mostly movies, some music, some technology, and bringing that to covering games and being very inspired by everyone from Pauline Kael and John Simon and Stanley Kauffmann, Roger Ebert -- to people who were writing for the Village Voice like Greg Tate and Lisa Jones and really strong cultural reporters who brought multiple perspectives to things. I try to bring that to games. Because my strength isn't that I've played every game that has ever come out or that I've played every game that does come out ... I always said that if I had a mutant power it would be that I hold a bunch of relatively useless facts in my head until it comes at the right moment to bring them all together, then I do. Then at best, it turns into something interesting and compelling, and I think race is a part of that. I think that when you have to move in worlds where you're not the majority, your antennae have to be a little more active, you have to be a little more aware and pay attention to things and see things, you sometimes see things in a way that other people don't. If that's a strength, which I think it can be, then that's a strength I have. Everyone has different strengths that would be one of mine.

Multiplayer: As far as the industry in general, although it seems that many African-Americans play games, there aren’t that many making them. Why do you think that is?

Croal: ... I think that it's not a clear career path, there's one thing. Another thing that I think is relevant -- it might seem that I'm dancing around the point but I'm not -- is when I was in college in the early '90s -- and I suspect it's still true today -- a lot of black students go to college with a different mission in mind. It's not to find yourself or figure out what you want to do or whatever. It's very pre-professional. It's pre-law, it's pre-med, engineering, business, things like that. In particular in the United States, given the racial history of this country, given the fact that we approach parity in terms of income, there's still an asset disparity because there were hundreds of years where black people couldn't own things, property. Even when they did it, could be taken away at any time. So I know people who were my age, some people older than myself, who were the first people in their family to go to college. ...

It's only relatively recently now that there's been an academic path into games. Before it was very much apprenticeship, right? You would have to write the company. I know people who have written letters and that's how they got hired. Or come in as a tester, and testers don't get paid a whole lot. So my point is that if there's an asset disparity, and there is -- one exists between African-Americans and other groups -- then it's going to be hard for your family to support you in a profession that doesn't pay well, assuming the entry-level position we're talking about is testing. So if you look at a field like publishing and ask yourself why there are so relatively few African-Americans in publishing, that's because that's a field that notoriously pays very, very low salaries. If you happened to have a trust fund or your parents were going to give you a credit card or things like that, then you could make it into those professions. Otherwise you would have to look into other fields.

The game industry isn't that bad. There are other ways to get in. I think more needs to be done to get people aware. I think so many people think of games as entertainment, something you play and don't necessarily think, "How do I get into this profession?" It’s kind of like watching sports. A lot of people think the only way in is to dunk a ball or hit a baseball and things like that, but there is a lot of support that goes on around it. I think it's important to build upon awareness. One of those ways is to reach out to historically black college and universities with programs similar to what USC and Electronic Arts have with their partnership. I think even by college, in some ways, it can be too late. Not that people can't go down that path but you want to make them aware even earlier. So I think identifying high schools that publishers and even colleges that have programs want to work with. Because making games isn't fun all the time but it's an incredible profession. I think raising awareness is the key thing. I think if more people knew that that was a path open to them, I think they would take it seriously.

Multiplayer: So you think that part of the issue too is the lack of visibility of African-Americans in these positions?

Croal: Well, the challenge that [the video games industry has] is that it's a pretty invisible industry. Game developers aren't featured on "Entertainment Tonight." You don't see Lucy Bradshaw or Kim Swift on the cover of Us Weekly. It's not a glamorous profession. So that's what makes visibility hard. A lot of editors of outlets like Newsweek, The Wall Street Journal and The New York Times are boomers or older. And a lot of them don't play video games. Even some of them that do don't necessarily connect it to other things in their lives. So maybe they play a little "Bejeweled" to relax, but they sort of dismiss that in a way they wouldn't dismiss watching "The Wire" and "The Sopranos" or "Lost" or shows like that. So I think there's invisibility there in terms of mainstream media.

Now in terms of the enthusiast press, there's probably also some invisibility there. I think a lot of what gets featured in enthusiast press is screenshots. There aren't really a ton of photos of people. So I think it does help to see people that look like you succeeding in these professions. It's like just knowing it's Spike Lee and because he starred in his own movies, he was sort of like Woody Allen. You're seeing the guy on screen who wrote and directed this movie. For me as a 16 year-old, that was really powerful. So I think that it would be powerful to other people. I know that it is because I've gotten a number of e-mails from black students in high school and college who've written me and said that it was inspiring to them -- to see my photo on the blog and read my stuff. They felt that it was inspiring to them, looking for career advice and other things. So I do think that visibility is definitely a part of what would boost people's interest in games.

Multiplayer: Ultimately, is diversity important in the video games industry?

Croal: Well, that's an interesting question. Is diversity important in the video games industry? [pauses] I'm pausing because I guess I'll answer like this: I think we don't yet know how important diversity is in the games industry because the industry is not as diverse as it could be. Stephen [Totilo] did that interview with John Koller where John Koller said -- which is something I'd known anecdotally -- that the PSP over-indexes among African-Americans and Latinos. I know just from my anecdotal experience -- back in '94, I went to a studio where a hip-hop album was being recorded for the first time. One of my best friends from college, Cheo Hodari Coker -- a journalistic screenwriter who wrote the book on Notorious B.I.G. -- he took me to the studio with him in '94 when I was visiting New York and he told me beforehand, "Look. There's three things without which a hip-hop album cannot be made: a bag of weed, a bottle of Hennessey, and a PlayStation with 'Madden.'" He's like, "You go to a studio, you're going to find those things." So I know from my own experience video games are a powerful draw in these communities and the video game industry is doing a good job reaching and selling to these audiences. So my guess is they can continue doing that just fine and not have to worry about being more diverse.

But the flipside of it is that when you look at the entire hip-hop industry, now the music industry is not in good shape right now. But when you look at up through I guess 2000, 2001 before the decline really started to hit, there was an industry that was born from creating something from nothing. In neighborhoods where arts education programs were getting gutted and neighborhoods that were blighted, you had people who said, "With two turntables and a microphone I can make a difference, I can make the world listen." You built an entire movement. I mean, there's hip-hop in Cuba, there's hip-hop in Poland, there's hip-hop in the Soviet Union; there are people all around who are moved by that. And so you say to yourself, if more black people had access to the means of production in video games, if more women had access to the means of production in video games, if more anyone -- what would you see? Other people could share their stories and their experiences. Not that games are a story-telling medium, but there's so much more that games could be. ...

I think that there are people who come from other places that might have something to offer games. They might come from very different -- not really so much cultural traditions -- but pop cultural traditions. ... When you look at what jazz unlocked, when you look at the blues, when you look at hip-hop, when you look at basketball. I mean, not just look at black people -- look at The Matrix. Look at what happened when two white directors from Chicago said, "Man this is incredible wire work that's going on. We're going to bring it here." It changed action cinema the world over. That's what I mean. That's why I'm getting excited about it. That's why it took so long to answer [the question] because we don't know what we're missing out on yet, because the industry is not as diverse as it could be. All we have to go on is what's in front of us. But if we look at other fields, and we see what's been done in other fields, it stands to reason that as you let more people who haven't had as much access to the means of production in video games get access, you're going to start to see some very different things. And that can only benefit the game industry. For those who write about it, it can only benefit.

Multiplayer: What do you think of the way African-Americans have been presented in games -- for instance, "Gears of War," the "Def Jam" games, "GTA: San Andreas"?

Croal: It's been largely stereotypical portrayals but video games tend to be very much about stereotypes and types. I think one of the challenges is that you can tell stories in games but it's not really a story-telling medium. It's much more of an iconic medium, and it's an interactive medium. So you are trying to make a strong, quick impression on people, you have to get a couple of things across very quickly. ...

I think the challenge is that there should be enough awareness that these are stereotypes, and you sort of say, "Well, what do you do about them?" How do you change them? So there was some criticism, which I think was fair, of "Gears of War" for its portrayal of Cole Train. The thing is, that wasn’t the only way the character could have been portrayed in that situation -- when you sort of think of a movie like Die Hard and the character of Theo, the geeky, smart, caustic guy who gets knocked out at the end. I'm not saying that's what "Gears of War" should have had; I'm saying people don't realize how colonized their minds are by stereotypes.

I don't think "Def Jam Vendetta" is a bad thing; I don't think featuring rappers in games is a bad thing. I liked the portrayal in "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas." Rockstar does a really, really good job of quickly and efficiently creating a character in ways that are more interesting. It's sort of simple. The one [scene] that seems to stand out in that game is the whole big brother arguing with his little sister over the fact that she's dating a Latino character in "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas." I mean, that was really well-written for that little total of 90 seconds that it portrayed. ... So I think there are ways to do that. Even in their game they had a character that you would say was stereotypical. He was an ex-gangster who comes back and falls into his own gang. Rockstar managed to take their stereotypes and take the stereo out and turn them into types, and sort of tweak them and sort of capture the whole arc of that character, capture the era or some sort of that era; capture the conspiracy theories and paranoia and some of which is rooted in fact about how drugs were introduced to L.A. and things like that. I think it's a really interesting portrayal.

Games are capable of more than people are doing with them. I think that's what they have to look to and say, "How much longer are we going to rely on the bald space marine? Or how much longer are we going to rely on the Elven female warrior whose armor barely covers her breasts? Is that all we can do with this medium or is there more that can be done?" I think some people just don't push themselves hard enough.

Multiplayer: So stereotypes are a staple in video games right now, but do you think that the audience is aware of those stereotypes?

Croal: That's a challenge because I think a lot of audiences, a lot of gamers, are happy with the games they play. I think there's a kind of defensiveness seen from gamers when they feel their hobby, their pastime, is being attacked. We saw that with a lot of things, in particular the Jade Raymond incident. We saw that with the "Mass Effect" and Fox controversy. We saw that with the "Resident Evil 5" trailer. ...

Multiplayer: Assuming that you would like to see more diversity in games in general, what games would you like to see for African-Americans?

Croal: I don't know. I guess I would say that it would be like, "What kind of movies would you like to see with African-Americans before Spike Lee came along?" I really like the movies he has made. He's black, but that's not the only thing that influences him in his movies. His father is a jazz musician so he grew up around a lot of music. He used to go to musicals a lot, and I think his films are best understood as musicals. There's a very theatrical quality to his films. I couldn't have said I want that in a movie because I didn't know. It's the same thing with games. I have ideas or thoughts on how games overall can be improved. But in terms of thinking of things that are specific, I do think that tapping into aspects of black American culture could be very fruitful. ...

I think in terms of things that I'd like to see, there are many things that people could tap into. ... You've got these dancing games that Konami does, "Dance Dance Revolution." There are segments of the black community for which dance is very important. I unfortunately was one of those black people who was born without the rhythm gene -- but I keep the beat. Just let it be known, I keep the beat. The thing that always struck me about "Dance Dance Revolution" is that you have a majority male audience that plays. It's probably not that heavy but in the arcades, a lot times you see guys more times than not. And I'm thinking, stereotypically, you've got these guys, and some women, who are learning to be good at "Dance Dance Revolution" but they're not learning any moves that they can take with them to the dance floor. They're accumulating cultural cred at this game that isn't transferable to social cred because if you were to bust out those "DDR" moves on the dance floor, you're going to get clowned. People are going to sort of back away slowly. So I wondered what if someone made sort of a "DDR" game that had a hip-hop choreographer? I'm not saying that those are the only things to tap into. But those are some of the things that tap into mind like cultural specificity, looking for interesting stories for protagonists that are outside the mold. I think that's something that games should be looking for anyways. I understand that people are looking for the some of the "same old, same old" but you have the potential to surprise people and engage people in different ways. There were a lot of people who thought that a black protagonist wouldn't work in "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas." But there were a lot of people who thought like, "Well I want to be a thug, I want to be a gangster" and it's the most successful "GTA" game ever. So I think the sky's the limit and people just have to look.

Check back later this week to see N'Gai Croal's extended thoughts on the "Resident Evil 5" trailer. Next up tomorrow: "Tomb Raider" producer Morgan Gray.