Am I correct in believing that many “Sonic” fans have grown tired of Sonic’s friends?
That they are sick of Shadow and Rouge and the human characters he hung out with in his latest game?
I sure hope I read the situation right, because that’s what I grilled BioWare founders Ray Muzyka and Greg Zeschuk about during part of Game Developers Conference interview with them last month. But don’t worry, they could handle it….
The reason for this line of questioning, of course, is because BioWare is developing “Sonic Chronicles,” a Sonic role-playing game for the DS that will feature Sonic and, yes, Sonic’s friends.
Here’s the back and forth:
Multiplayer: I think people pretty uniformly love the games you guys make. And I think people pretty uniformly are getting tired of Sonic having so many friends in all of his games. I think that puts you guys and your team in kind of a funny spot. Do you think …
Ray Muzyka, General Manager, BioWare: Which people?
Multiplayer: Which characters?
Muzyka: No, which types of people complain about them?
Multiplayer: It seems like the “Sonic” series, which was beloved when it came out on the Genesis…
Muzyka: [smiling] I still have my signed Genesis, signed by Yuji Naka-san plugged into my TV and it still works and I still play it. It’s fantastic.
Multiplayer: As the series has gone on, people loved it, loved it, loved it, and, when it went to 3D, there was some grumbling. The games have been somewhat maligned by the critics since then. And one of the things you hear is “Oh, every time they make a new ‘Sonic’ game, they’re adding this character or that character. Now there’s Shadow and he’s got a gun… And then [Sonic]’s in love with human women who are bringing him back to life”…
People are like, “Can’t we just have a game with just Sonic in it? A straight platformer like on the Genesis, maybe with Tails, maybe with Knuckles?” That’s what I feel like I read in reviews. I’m not a hardcore Sonic fan myself, but that’s what I sense…
So I’m wondering if you consider yourselves in that bind and if that’s given any extra motivation to figuring out: “How do we make sure these characters don’t drive people crazy this time?”
Muzyka: I think it’s a huge opportunity when you have an IP that has reverence and weight and it means something to a lot of people and it’s also got a ton of backstory and thought that’s gone into that. “Sonic” is a great example. That’s why we’re excited to develop with Sega to make “Sonic Chronicles,” the first RPG. It is a great IP. There’s all these interesting characters.
We’re really excited with how you combine narrative flow in a way that’s appropriate to the DS platform and aimed at little younger audience — but really, all ages. We’re trying to make a game that is going to appeal to a lot of people. But also to use the best things about the “Sonic” IP, like speed. It is really about speed for Sonic, but for the other characters it’s about other things. They have their own unique abilities.
I think when you combine those two things, the intersection of the narrative and the IP, that’s where the sweet spot is. And if you’re a little bit off, people know that. They recognize it’s not quite aligned. We’re making sure it’s well-aligned and in tune with what the IP is actually about.
Multiplayer: Were you guys aware, though, that Sonic’s friends were at all unpopular?
Greg Zeschuk, General Manager, BioWare: I think one of the interesting things about the way we look at the “Sonic” franchise is that they are kind of an opportunity for us.
We’ve literally concluded this: we believe that all our games make so much sense to have multiple characters involved because effectively they are the reflections of your actions in the world. We’ve tried it a few times without them, but we’ve always put the other characters back I because it just made sense. So [we believe in] using them as a strength.
I think maybe the challenge there, if people are not as excited about having the friends, is making them worthwhile, making them a good part of the game. They’re not going to be gimmicky. They’re not going to be side things. It is actually a core part of the gameplay mechanic. It’s actually, we think, going to revitalize the love of the Sonic friends, especially Big the Cat. [laughing]
Muzyka: One other thing that’s very cool about all of our games is we try to allow choice. And the choice is moment to moment; it’s in the story; it’s within your exploration. It’s also within your choice of companion characters and sidekicks. And you’re going to have a different experience in BioWare games depending on who you bring with you. That was true in “Knights of the Old Republic,” it’s true in “Mass Effect,” and it’s true in all of our games. If you like certain characters that’s an opportunity and you get to travel with them.
Frankly, we also look at it as an art form. One of the things we’re trying to do is make people feel something, an emotional attachment. And it could be dislike. Dislike is an emotion. If you provoke that kind of emotion and you’re trying to provoke that, it’s a good thing. Provided you allow players to enjoy the experience throughout. Hopefully they like some characters. Hopefully they dislike some characters. And if we can bring that and maximize that, it’ll be really fun.
***
March 13th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
As a Sonic fan dating back to its first inception, I feel that I must voice my opinion on the Sonic hate. The reason why characters like Shadow, Rouge, and Amy are disliked is due to Sonic Team’s lack of creativity and possible motivation. Ever since Sega dropped out of the console race, their games have gotten progressively worse. The only Sonic games that have been tolerable this decade are sadly on the GBA and DS; due to the fact that other companies were involved.
Personally, Sonic still has a fighting chance to regain his dignity. It just needs the right person to step in and put his fingers Sega’s mold. In the 90s, Sonic was a mascot that pertain to teen-20 something demographic. Now, he’s been reduced to a fisher-price toy that’s an embarrassment to the company he represents. Though I’m really surprised nobody has mentioned this, but I believe Sega should acknowledged their most cherished, underrated, and neglected Sonic characters that actually have fans and supporters. I’m referring to the Freedom Fighters that debuted in the SatAM cartoon show and Archie Comics. To this day, I still consider that incarnation to be the best and it would be a perfect setting for the RPG game. A cohesive storyline that involves a malicious dictator that has overthrown the planet Mobius; enslaving the populace as his robot slaves. Sonic and his band of Freedom Fighters team up to thwart the evil Dr. Robotnik in hope to restore peace.
Now let’s talk about characters. Why did Sega change Dr. Robotnik to Eggman? It sounds like a rejected Mega Man villain and doesn’t necessarily strike terror in the heart of his foes. Robotnik is not only more menacing, but it symbolically represents his persona and intentions. Robotnik is a polish word that translates to “slave worker” which is what Robotnik is. He turns innocent victims into robots. Please Sega, Eggman is a joke and has been ever since Sonic Adventure. If Bioware bothered to do their research (which they claimed they did), they’d consider implementing SatAM/Archie Characters. Princess Sally, Bunnie Rabbot, Anotnie, Dulcy and of course Sonic and Tails. You can tell that the creators of the show and comics invested a lot of time shaping these characters cause they’re not just one dimensional cardboard cutouts like Silver or Blaze, they actually have personalities and abilities that are worthy to the battle field. Throughout their 17 year existence, there’s never been a next gen Sonic character that’s been so endearing and as the Freedom Fighters.
Let’s be sincere for a second. We can all agree that Rouge, Silver, Blaze, and whatnot have no appeal and never have. If Sega truly wants to save their mascot and their company, they should hire better writers, game developers and research on what made Sonic great in the first place. Though it may seem risky, but I personally believe that if Sega were committed to the SatAM/Archie and canonized it with their game storylines throughout the 90s and 00s, Sonic would be more epic than Mario! Whether you agree/disagree with my assessment, I think Sega has been sitting on a goldmine here cause SatAM/Archie is the reason I became a Sonic fan years ago. Ironic how Sega purposely neglects their prize creations, while they churn out unoriginal, uninspiring characters from the Sonic Team template machine. Its depressing that the only Sonic fix I can get is through the Archie Comics. At least they still recognize Sally and others as their central character still. Anyway, I think Ill end it here. I apologize if this post is a tad wordy, but I wanted to vent my frustration since I’m annoyed to see “I hate Sonic” topics surface here all the time on the net.
March 13th, 2008 at 10:15 pm
I don’t think people have hated the character in and of themselves. The hate comes from the fact that playing as them is usually so much less fun than playing as Sonic and fills Sonic’s games with not Sonic, which is bad.
In an RPG I don’t think this fact will be a problem since presumably they’ll just be a part of the party and Sonic will still be there.
Provided the game is good I don’t think the characters will be as hated as they usually are for the above reason and because they won’t be voice acted (hopefully). The voice acting is usually killer as well.
March 14th, 2008 at 12:33 am
Sonic is defined by speed which is both a blessing and a curse. In the 2D games, all the levels were tailored around Sonic’s ability to zip through from the start to finish at a breakneck pace. None of the supporting cast can do this because it is Sonic’s forte. This is problematic because people play Sonic games for the speed and nothing else.
The other characters were given other abilities but they were never properly explored. Cheap tricks were used to acommodate the supporting characters in the level design. You never had to employ clever tricks or skill with the supporting cast to progress through the games. Tails would just fly over obstacles. Knuckles would break blocks to reveal alternate paths.
March 14th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
BioWare is well-known for writting such well-balanced storylines, yet I doubt even they can make Sonic’s awful friends (even Sonic himself) likeable. But who knows, they may find certain alternate paths to turn those awful stereotypes into equivalents of Mario’s large cast of friends. After all, Square-Enix did an RPG for Mario and Disney (especially Disney, because Kingdom Hearts is unimagineably awesome), so how can BioWare not #*%$* this up.
If anything, I’d like to see:
1. See Sonic FINALLY romance Amy Rose as opposed to humans and genies. Amy’s a hedgehog, and it just makes more sense to see two hedgehogs of opposite genders make out, than see humans get it on with animals.
2. See Tails become stronger and Knuckles become smarter.
3. See Cream GROW UP, and actually defend herself with the help of her chao, Cheese, without the urges to cry like the stereotypical damsel she is.
4. See Rouge give up her gratuitously-seductive ways.
5. See Shadow FINALLY outgrow his past, and above all, his anti-social ways, and have him socialize with Sonic and co. better.
6. See Big smarter and less protective of his mutant frog, Froggy.
7. See Silver less of an idiot and Blaze less of a spoiled princess.
8. See Eggman come in terms with the realization that even if he defeats Sonic, his friends will be there to take his place as Eggman’s new arch-nemeses.
March 14th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
You know, this is why I hate most of my fellow Sonic fans. They’re all so stupid. They always whine about everything and they only see what they want to see. For one thing Eternal_Nothingness, Shadow HAS outgrown his past. It’s just that since it happened in the game starring him and no one likes that game nor did they like Sonic 06 which showed that he’d moved on, no one wants to see this.
Rouge would not be Rouge if she wasn’t a flirty, sexy secret agent type character. That doesn’t need to be changed. What she needs is more depth. Silver was more naive than an idiot and Blaze? A spoiled princess? You’re kidding right?
And well, it wouldn’t feel right if Sonic actually liked Amy as anything more than a friend. He didn’t actually “romance” Elise or Shaara. They might have liked him, but he showed no interest in them as anything but friends. I personally like to think Sonic is asexual. XD It’s a change from the usual “Hero gets the girl” thing to have the hero being uninterested in romance for a non-angsty reason (You know, just because he isn’t interested).
I don’t really know what you mean by the one about Eggman. That one isn’t really important. Otherwise I agree with your points except that “less protective of Froggy” should be changed to “doesn’t mention Froggy every other time he opens his mouth” like he did in Sonic Heroes.
As for Knotholereisdent and his/her suggestion about adding the SATAM/Archie cast: NO.
Just no. As much as I like Archie (or liked before it turned into a Soap Opera), and Satam, that would not be a good idea. They have plenty of characters in the games to work with. They don’t need more. Plus I think the games and the comics are mixed together enough as it is on the comics side. Archie really needs to stop adapting the game story line into it’s storyline and start doing more original stuff and I’d rather that it didn’t start happening the other way around. I don’t want Eggman to start Roboticizing things. I want him to be taken more seriously as a villain again, the Dr. Robotnik of the games has never been as evil as his Cartoon/Comic counter part and I’d like it to stay that way. I mean at least when he put small woodland creatures into his robot minions to power them, all Sonic had to do was jump on them to reverse it. For a very long time in the comics, Roboticization was not reversible. I thought people didn’t want the games to be darker. I mean people wouldn’t have complained about the dark tone of Shadow’s game’s storyline if it had been from the comics instead.
What I’d like to see for Eggman/Robotnik is for him to start calling himself Robotnik again and confine the name Eggman to a nickname Sonic and co. use for him like in the first Sonic Adventure.
I’d also love it if this game were to get people to stop whining about how much every other character besides, Sonic, Tails, Knuckles and Eggman/Robotnik sucked, but I think even if they do develop the others more, I don’t think they can pull off that miracle. People will still think they suck even if Sega pulls it’s act together and starts treating the characters as more than just gimmicks without another developer involved. U_U;
March 14th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
4.2. Also, I forgot to say this, but Shadow shouldn’t wield those racist guns, or any guns again, let alone drive vehicles. If he wants to fight, he should use his Chaos Control, because it makes him feel less racist of a stereotype. Did I mention that he should outgrow his past and start to care about Sonic and the others, rather than be anti-social Maria-holic jerk?
Also, the story itself should be as simple as the original 2D Sonics, where the only story there was in these games were all left by the players’ imagination rather than the developers’. Despite the addition of the “Dark Brotherhood,” it should just be “Eggman’s out to steal the Chaos Emeralds, and only Sonic and his god-awful friends must race against him for the emeralds.” Nothing more, nothing less.
March 14th, 2008 at 5:08 pm
See that’s what I mean right there. You didn’t listen when I said he’d outgrown his past already, didn’t you? I forgot to mention that I think his anti-socialness will take some character development before he’s less so. He did grow closer to Rouge and Omega in Sonic 06, but I guess that doesn’t count since those events were erased. I’m sure he will get better about it though.
But, why is Shadow with guns a racist? O.o He’s not an African American human, he’s a black hedgehog. Not that I don’t agree that he shouldn’t use guns anymore. It’s just that’s a really weird statement. Unless that’s supposed to be a joke or something.
Also, I doubt it’ll be a simple story since this IS an RPG. RPG stories are more complex than platformer stories. That’s the way it’s always been. Though the basic outline of the quest can be plenty simple, I guess.
March 14th, 2008 at 5:13 pm
Let me correct myself a little. “Why is Shadow with a gun a racist stereo type” is what I meant to say, but I somehow missed that last word. XD;
March 15th, 2008 at 5:11 am
No No No you got it all wrong Stephen Totilo! We LOVE Sonic and his friends! The games just need that “feel” that they hade back in the day. I have loved all the sonic games from Sonic 1 - Next-Gen. They just need to model the game and story after Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 with each “friend” having there own role and story. They need to bring back the power to turn to Super Sonic at any level after betting the game/collecting the Chaos Emeralds, and They could lay off the new characters for awhile and work on reestablishing the pre existing characters story lines, DEEPER story lines would be nice. Don’t take our characters away Sega and BioWare!
March 15th, 2008 at 8:57 am
Well, the fact is, in Sonic Next Gen, Sonic’s got the Chaos Emeralds, Silver’s got psychokinesis and Shadow’s got the guns. They gotta have something unique you know…
But still, if you ask me, if what Eternal_nothingness says is true, we won’t have a story at all! But Silver…the poor guy was hated for his slow speed, his psychokinesis, and his misinterpretation of who the Iblis Trigger really was. But still, he could be a lot more “smartened up”, and cooler. Like another Sonic, with only a lot more determination. The other characters will definitely be as they are, because diverse personalities make the story a lot better. If you ask me, Sonic Heroes, with its diverse cast and simpler storyline was the best ever produced from SEGA. It only had the Sonic Franchise Characters, and it had lots of team actions.
This game looks interesting from what I saw in Wikipedia, and I hope it comes out really well!
March 15th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Thank god Bioware is making this on the DS.. Every Sonic game on consoles since Sonic Heroes was horrible. Yes for the amazing amount of characters that make no sense. Especially Shadow and now Silver.
March 16th, 2008 at 4:32 am
From the interview above I am not at all convinced that these guys knew what you were talking about; or they did and just totally dodged the question because they didn’t want to ackowledge something bad about the IP they are working on.
As for the rich backstory, WTF? It’s all over the shop? Sonic should be on Mobius; no humans; with Tails and maybe Knuckles as playable characters; everyone else is NPC.
March 18th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Such applications, that all new characters is not like by fans - bosh, characters of new Sonic’s generation too have a lot of fans. Such characters as Shadow the Hedgehog and Rouge the Bat are very popular. But here if to consider absolutely new characters this another matter, yes, Sonic Team in each game add pair-three new characters, it is not so correct. If these characters was второстепенными and one-day as Marine the Raccoon, but Sonic Team tries to untwist these new characters, make a part of the main series, that is bad as that they supersede old characters.
Shadow has very huge quantity of admirers, since Sonic Adventure 2, it began to win popularity owing to his deep, interesting and tragic history. Therefore Sonic Team began to add him in each new games as have understood, that this hedgehog very much the valuable acquisition for franchise. I personally know many fans of the Shadow whom for the sake of what to play in its personal game, have bought new game consoles. Therefore Sonic Team till now hold this character in the center of attention.
But thus there was other problem. Besides fans of the Shadow, certainly, there are also other fans whom roads and are not indifferent other characters. Last games of the main series about Sonic have Shadow as one of protagonists, but thus Sonic Team has at all forgotten about development of other characters, that is simply awful. In fact it is simply unfair, when those characters who were a basis of Sonic world, when those characters who have developed a series and have made its popular, these characters have been removed on a background, and have ceased to develop. All attention in the main series now is given in a greater degree of Shadow. Almost in each game he borrows not a small share of a story in which necessarily narrate about his next drama. And what others? If in Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2 games enough attention has been given to all characters and show their persons and their development, now it is not present, other characters serve only for a change a background. Tails which in “Adventures” started to realize itself as the independent person capable to cope with difficulties separately from Sonic, now does not develop, and simply carries out a standard role of the assistant to the protagonist. He did not begin to develop further, and on the contrary again became less self-assured. Knuckles, which was the serious character who carries out the duty which was bequeathed his ancestors, has very much changed in present games; if in Sonic Adventure he have started to reveal a secret of he’s origins which interested by many fans, now this all is simply forgotten; Knuckles now put to Sonic, he now does not carry out that purpose which was more dear than a life to him, in greater cases he simply runs for Sonic in his new adventures. Let alone that in last games he represent too quick-tempered and silly; it very much is not pleasant to his fans.
The problem is that only Shadow develops as the person, he after passage of games, makes decision which influence its life. Other characters cost on a place as persons; in a plot them add only as supporting roles, they have no deep and important duties in a story. Only about Shadow’s past is told in a series, other characters are not opened completely, about them absolutely nothing is not known. Such characters as Tails, Knuckles, Amy and Rouge store in themselves huge potential, they can be opened and developed, having made a series is much better.
Shadow very good character, but Sonic Team have forgotten about other not less important heroes. Therefore many other fans, especially old and admirers of other characters does not are happy with it .
March 26th, 2008 at 3:52 am
As much as I sound like i’m boot licking, I’m glad they chose to incorporate and build on the multitudinous characters that have been introduced over the years. Some of these characters just never got the chance to shine properly. Others have withered down over the years. Knuckles has been knocked down from the responsible, if naive gaurdian of angel island, to sonics brutish lackey. I think seeing these characters developed fully and brought to light would give new life to the sonic series that’s been struggling lately. I’m really exited about this game, and I can’t wait to see how it turns out.
March 27th, 2008 at 9:27 pm
Well from reading everyones responses people still love sonic and co. but all of them need to be more mature, as in sense of emotion when critical situations happens. For example mario is still mario but when it gets tough he gets tough, mario and bowser has come to blows on more than one account, the only time Sonic and Robotnik/Eggman came blows was in the comic books because the situation was deeper than just stopping robotnik for a second then see you next week, no it was a constant struggle not only against robotnik but with their daily life, just like anybody else, stuff happens.Bioware is going to have fun with this because they make you want to connect with your character more than just getting to the end of the game and maybe Sonic and co. can grow up sort of speak.