Did you think that “Mass Effect“’s side quests could be better? If so, then the guys who run BioWare agree that there is room for improvement.
They told me so at GDC.
I care, because I’ve been to a lot of those side-quest planets in “Mass Effect.” In fact, I believe I’ve been to all of them. So I have my own feelings about what worked and what didn’t. I wanted to get the official developers’ take.
Here’s my chat with BioWare general manager Greg Zeschuk on the topic:
Multiplayer: I played through the end of “Mass Effect.” I had a good time with it. I actually liked exploring a lot of the planets. But what do you make of the people who have said they really enjoy the critical path much more than the side quests? Have you learned any aspects about how to improve upon that aspect of game development, which seems to me to be necessarily always going to be secondary — because they are the side quests? How do you improve that area of game development?
Greg Zeschuk, General Manager, BioWare: “Mass Effect” was specifically designed so there was kind of a straight shot of really intense story down the middle. And then, on the sides, we almost had supporting casts — and those were the planets you could explore. And that was really purposeful. That was to give the player a lot of variety in what you could do and give the player a user-driven, sort of personally customized choice as to how you could play the game.
One of the things we’re looking at for sequels and some of our other games is better technical ways, smarter ways to auto-generate content, to create stuff that seems richer to the player. Another thing we’re looking at — again not specific to one game, but just generally — is a way of tying those additional moments back into the story: whether it’s having to gather certain things for those other planets, kind of making them more central to the story but making sure that they’re still the supporting cast. [We want to be sure] that there’s something really purposeful about them.
I think with “Mass” we just wanted to say, “Let’s make a whole bunch of planets for people to explore.” They all encapsulated, amongst themselves, some fun stories to do. Some kind of spanned among each other. But [next] we’re taking it to that next level of tying them into the central story as well.
Multiplayer: Is it partially a methodology thing? I don’t know if this is something a lot of developers wind up confronting, but do side quests wind up being the last thing you get to or something you’re not able to staff as much as you’d want to, because they’re not as important as the main part of the game?
Zeschuk: Side quests can sometimes be left on the side, so to speak. Pardon the pun. But a lot of times it’s even just getting that whole game done, that first shot [that is important]. We look at “Mass Effect 2” as incredibly exciting. Just the amount of effort and knowledge and know-how that went into building the technology for the first one is huge, and [we now have] the chance to actually make things a little bit richer.
We look into BioWare’s history and we’re really aiming for what happened with “Baldur’s Gate II” compared to what happened with “Baldur’s Gate” one. “Baldur’s Gate” one — extremely solid game, huge impact on the industry. But with “Baldur’s Gate II” we just took it to a whole new level. And I think that’s what we’re excited about with “Mass.”
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“Mass Effect” fans, do you like what you’ve read here? What do you think about side quests and how BioWare or any other developers should handle them?
March 11th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
Yes I do like what I have heard here; I like the fact that the interviewee doesn’t beat around the bush and admits that the side quests were lacklustre, I personally was amazed by some of them (see: the one aboard the ship witht the guy on the life support machine, and the rogue Alliance Officer with his own cult), but many of them were simply barren planets.
I simply can’t wait for Mass Effect 2, especially with the great cliffanger. Mr Totilo could you ask him if your decision at the end of the game will be carried onto Mass effect 2, If you ever get a chance to itnerview him again
March 11th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
I really loved Mass Effect, in fact, I think it’s probably one of the best games I’ve ever played. That being said though, there is definitely room for improvement in the side quests. These are the two major ones for me though:
1) There should be more quests relating to your squad. The one for Garrus in particular was really cool in that you learned about some of his history and also got to make a choice that affected his character development.
2) The assignments dealing with Cerberus were great, but felt sort of anti-climactic when I finished them. Linking a series of almost random assignments together in your search for Cerberus was great, but when it was all over, it was just over. How about a cinematic? Or maybe some sort of assignment where you present your info to the Captain and you see them get taken down?
It would be great it we would get more interrelated assignments like this, but there needs to be more of a sense of accomplishment (or at least closure) for finishing them.
March 11th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
I think the biggest thing is the side quests needed to have a lot more meat on them. Like a lot of the great Bioware side quests in the past have had little twists on them, like the Fiirkraag quest in BG2 is totally optional for non Paladins but it’s got like all kinds of little events and stuff. And they should tell a story more than they do. Like not just like drop down drive to a hotspot on the map and get out. Just like it really needs to have more wow moments in the side jobs.
March 12th, 2008 at 12:24 am
One thing I think that made the side quests seem very repetitive was the scenery and locations. No trees, all of the buildings looked the same (what, did they all shop at the same store when buying buildings?). I liked the plot of some of the side-quests, but because I wasn’t seeing anything new, I did them meerly for achievements. One surefire way to make things better is terrain generation and buildings. A planet needs a spaceport, with people that inhabit it, along with shops and things, which can all be generated on the fly with geometry and buildings found elsewhere in the game (take the very first level for instance).
Another way to do it I think is to make the sidequest map square, as in the first game, but not to define the boundry, ie put a few mountains or undrivable terrain so that you can’t exit the boundry, without actually letting the user know they’ve reached the edge of the boundry. They already do this by putting mountain ranges you can’t get over, making the user travel through valleys or other mountains to get to strategic points on the map.
The DLC was a tad better than the other side-quests, however I wouldn’t say it was a “ton” better. The planet in the atmosphere was cool, and the torches were cool, but each building looked the same from the outside and inside. The only part that looked any different from other side-missions was the inside of the main base, which was pretty cool.
Just my two cents
March 12th, 2008 at 1:01 am
I think a big problem with those side quests were, just as Andrew said, that the objective was “drop in, kill, get out”. Most of the time you just stormed a base to clear out a bunch of mercs, and that was about it.
There were a few side quests that were exciting, though. Honestly, any side quest where I went to the identical back rooms and opened a door to find ANYONE got me excited. There were only a handful that I can remember, however, that had any dialogue or consequence at the end of it. “Dead Scientists” was interesting because you faced the rogue soldier near the end, and the one with the Crime Lords and Helena was entertaining as well. But then there would be some, like the one involving Admiral Kahoku, was long and complex, getting me excited for an amazing ending… which ended up being anti-climatic. I killed the last merc in the last facility… and that was it.
I’m definitely excited that our side quests will be tied into the main mission, or that there will be an attempt for them to be tied in. I also like how completing some missions unlocked others in ME1, and I hope that this idea is carried over into ME2. Even if they aren’t tied into the main quests, I do enjoy interrelated side quests. It’s like having an extra main quest to dabble in.
March 12th, 2008 at 2:24 am
Perhaps it was the way and order in which I played the game, but I let most of the side quests linger until towards the end, at which point I did most of them in one big batch before the final showdown with Saren. As such, I will second the opinion that having 99% of the buildings on all of the landable side quest planets be constructed from the exact same textures and architecture really turned what should have been an exploratory process into feeling like a repetitive exercise: land on planet, check debris, check anamoly, survey deposit, check facility, battle and take off. The oddly abrupt endings for a few of the longer multi-part quests added to this feeling of things being half-baked.
I understand that time is required to add novelty to such a giant universe, so I look forward to seeing how the Biofolks handle these encounters for the next title… and by the same token, I learned a lesson to simply take up a few side quests early on in the game and use them to break up the larger plot.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:53 am
in oblivion if we didnt have anything to do or just bored of doing the same stuff over and over we could just go to our homes and have a drink sit on the balcony enjoy the sight or hang around in the woods; on the mountains, look down on the city,watch the sunset-rise then an enemy!!! would suddenly appear and try to kill us…i see some creatures living on some planets which are terribly animated,why arent there any plants which are adapted to that environment, no paths? no stations? no people? where do they live ?why cant we go there and meet some? oh my!am i asking for too much?:P the npcs in mass effect are like ninjas, suddenly appear tell u what to do and after the conversation suddenly dissappear…they must be needing a blue ray disc…
March 12th, 2008 at 6:03 am
maybe u should just add some sexy armors in the game so we d be staring at the femsheppard not noticing the new environment is exactly same as the previous one was
March 12th, 2008 at 9:18 am
My comment isn’t so much about side quests but for future DLC. If the DLC could be made to occur after the main story, it would be more tempting to get. That way I wouldn’t have to start an entirely new game just to see the new content.
As for the side quests, it would be cool if the “extra” planets that you visit didn’t seem so barren. Planets that were populated by the “little monkeys” didn’t seem like they could support life.
March 12th, 2008 at 10:38 am
The item collecting quests in Mass Effect are very boring. I played the game for more than 60 hours, but got really bored when I started doing the scans and landing in vague planets just to find a peace of rock. That’s a big waste of time, because it’s not fun. Next time, we should be able to send recruits to those planets, and only go in ourselves if there’s something more than land, drive, collect, and leave.
I love this game, but the “Ally” achievements are a pain in the but due to those type of missions. Next time, ME2 should have some kind of bidding rooms a la Lost Odyssey, were you can buy items you missed, and when you get the item there should a small paragraph about it.
I wonder if the story in ME2 will top ME1. ME1 has the best story I have ever experienced in a video game to date. The whole story is just phenomenal, and the created universe is in a league of its own.
March 12th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
You know, you never have to do any of the item collection quests to get any of the Ally achievements, not even the Asari one.
That said, I really wish that either the side quests weren’t needed for the ally achievements, or that significantly fewer were. It was OK to see them all once, and they can still be worthwhile for experience with a new party at a higher difficulty, but I really wish that I didn’t have to grind through 90% of them for those achievements.
I do like that most of the achievements have real affects on later plays though. This is the first game in which I’ve put in extra effort to get some.
March 12th, 2008 at 8:30 pm
Let me first say that I am a HUGE fan of Mass Effect and the storytelling RPG’s in general. However, I do very much agree that the side quests can and should be improved second-go-round for Bioware.
I think the problem with the side quests was two-fold. First of, the big one for me was the repetition in the environments. If the game is about exploring “different world”, then please make the worlds look and feel different. I’m not saying that EACH world needs to be completly unique, but almost every single sidequest had the exact same feel to the environment and the gameplay.
Second problem for me was that the time needed to finish all of the side quests was probably about equal to the time needed to finish the main quest. That is too much time dedicated to side quests; I think they really should only be 1/4 or so of the total game. It made doing side quests almost like a chore, like doing the dishes…i just didn’t enjoy them that much after the first couple. Of course, you dont HAVE to do the side quests, but seriously, thats like buying a ticket to the superbowl and leaving after its half done…we all feel the need to get our monies worth.
But all this being said, the main quest was absoultly amazing and the rest of the elements in this game were brilliant! Keep it up Bioware…you are on the verge of greatness w/ Mass 2
March 12th, 2008 at 10:21 pm
73g, thanks for the tip. Now I know I only have to the other quests, that actually have to do with other people and have a plot.
One more thing, they need to fix those textures pop ups. I hope, they improve the Unreal Engine 3. Bioshock, is the Ue3 game with the least amount of texture pop up. ME1 is the one with the most prevalent.
March 13th, 2008 at 8:23 am
I like this game, but i think that the whole Game was too short.
Not only the Main Story.
And stop this “collect much of random things in the space and get the achievenments”.. That a booring Way to lengthen the Game…
I like detective storys and maybe some sort of “Wall Street” speculation with Money and so? Buy shares of an company, destroy the enemy of this company and then be rich
And then some thieves come to you and steal the money and you are poor again.. Another quest..
And More Sex please. I liked it.. And more “look at dancing blue woman”
Regards,
/ajk
March 13th, 2008 at 11:25 am
I think a bit more variety would have helped. I know ye were trying to move away from the KOTR formula, but why ditch what worked? There should have been different LOOKING weapons, not just different stats. Different companies have different looks to their products, and I’m sure alien races would have wildly differing ideas about what’s aesthetically pleasing. Heavy armour should look ARMOURED, not just slightly bulkier, and a player should be able to tell at a glance how tooled up their opponents are by the silhouette of their gear and weapons. The system in KOTR of having seperate trousers, chestplate, boots etc. was great, and made it all the more disappointing that all the gear for every race by every company was pretty much identical. The menu system? Oh sweet Jebus don’t get me started on the menu system… Alright, I will then, cheers. Multiple items need to be listed as ‘cool gun (X5)’ rather than cool gun, cool gun, cool gun, cool gun, cool gun.. maybe different categories rather than having ALL inventory in one place to aid navigation, or highlighting equipped items. Oh yes, and it’s a small thing I know, but setting B to quit the navigation menu in the normandy has to be one of the most counter-intuitive button configurations I’ve seen in years.. I realise I’m coming off overly critical, but it’s because you came SO CLOSE. Mass effect overall was blindingly good, but really let down by repitition. I’ve heard tell it was for the sake of a unified design but did EVERY dwelling need to be identical? even in LAYOUT? All the weapons, armour and planets? Come on. And what happened to that cool ‘interrupt’ feature that was in the trailers? That practically sold me on the game on its own! (That said the dialogue trees and the fact that it was all spoken dialogue was… delicious.) Ok, I’m rambling now. I’m done.
March 13th, 2008 at 6:41 pm
Please don’t use the same tired layouts for nearly every planetary pirate base, etc. They’re all exactly the same. I tried to think of why you did that… maybe the same intergalactic company makes all of the pirate bases… but that’s just dumb.
Plus, ADD TREES and actual ecosystems to the planets. Other than that. Well done.
What was supposed to be my favorite game of all time, came in at #8 or so… that’s a lot of pressure, but you guys are Bioware, come on.
March 13th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
Mass Effect was a lot of fun - some minor flaws - but a great new IP. Looking forward to the sequel!
March 14th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
I agree about the lack of variation on the planets and for the side quests.
Also I would like to see a kind of mini-game like Pazaak from SW:KOTOR, or Triple Triad from Final Fantasy VIII. The Quasar machines was kinda lame.
March 19th, 2008 at 10:34 am
i thoght the side quest where longer then the main game really
i would like to know wots going to happen at the start of Mass 2, because if its a continue of the frist one i think we should be able to pick who died or not.
couse if you remember you have two give up a team member
and again save the concil or let them die, then you get to pick who you want on the concil.
one more thing i think Mass 2 would be cool if it was Multiplayer (co-op aswell) and you can pick wot race you want to be.
April 22nd, 2008 at 2:39 pm
i agree with most posts.
side quests were just too long, and most times i was left with a no closure feeling after ending a side quest.
i really wish they make it right this time by tying side quests with the main plot =D
the menu system…. god, i really didnt like that part of the game. i wasted a LOT of time going through “my stuff” ….
but, to be honest, the story is the best part of the game, at least for me. so i really really hope that ME2 starts where we left off. including the “important” decisions i took (as saving/or not wrex, kaidan/ashley, the love story, letting die/saving council and all that stuff)
also i do hope that when the battle with the reapers comes, they take it for real. i mean, the sovereign was under fire from an entire fleet, and still it just “passed by”. so i would totally expect the battle against the reapers to be …… AMAZING!!!
i should end this :p it feels like my -never ending christmas gift list- =p
(bring in more cutscenes for the side quests pleasE!!! )
=)
May 11th, 2008 at 9:11 pm
I thought the side missions were pretty great.
My big problem with the game was the planets, the scenery was the same alot in the game, same bulidings.
It annoys me that some planets it would litterely be go on this planet and find some object like light metal.
Woulda bn cool if you coulda landed on earth