What We're NOT Playing - Volume 16 (The Endless 'Endless Ocean' Debate Edition)

This week's "What We're NOT Playing" became a hotly contested debate about a certain ocean-exploring Wii game.

Despite Totilo's humpback whale-riding and penguin-petting, the Jasons of MTV Multiplayer could not fathom that Totilo or I could like a "game" (or "experience") called "Endless Ocean." Why? Because you can't fight... or "win":

JasonCipriano: YOU CAN'T WIN
TraceyJohn: Why do you have to win?
JasonCipriano: there's just no ending or whatever
JasonCipriano: when you beat the last boss, and save the world from the land of darkness
JasonCipriano: yeah, you win
JasonCipriano: the story is over
JasonCipriano: the game is done
JasonCipriano: because there is a game
JasonCipriano: there is a conflict
JasonCipriano: a fundamental element of story-telling
JasonCipriano: and gaming
JasonCipriano: you need a conflict in order for it to be enjoyable

Let me interject here to ask you, readers... do we need to have conflict in a game? Does a game always need set goals? Do you have to win? Read on to see me take a type-lashing, and weigh in with your thoughts...

[Photo Credit: Streeter Lecka/Getty Images]

TraceyJohn: Ok, here we are with another week of not playing stuff.
TraceyJohn: Stop fighting about what you're not playing.
TraceyJohn: Or at least type it here!
JasonCipriano: I'm going first
JasonCipriano: "ENDLESS OCEAN"
JasonCipriano: See... I got it first
JasonMitchell: I'm not playing it first
TraceyJohn: Ok, why Cip? Even though Totilo got to pet a penguin?
JasonCipriano: I loves me some Nintendo ... but man... there's just too much non-game there for me to actually enjoy it
JasonCipriano: at least "Nintendogs" is focused
JasonCipriano: this one's just too broad
JasonCipriano: YOU CAN'T WIN
TraceyJohn: So you don't like MMOs either?
TraceyJohn: Why do you have to win?
JasonCipriano: I'm waiting to read on some blog that someone won "Endless Ocean"
JasonMitchell: I don't like "WoW"
JasonMitchell: for that reason
JasonCipriano: there's just no ending or whatever
JasonCipriano: I don't like MMOs
JasonCipriano: when you beat the last boss, and save the world from the land of darkness
JasonCipriano: yeah, you win
JasonCipriano: the story is over
JasonCipriano: the game is done
JasonCipriano: because there is a game
JasonCipriano: there is a conflict
JasonCipriano: a fundamental element of story-telling
JasonCipriano: and gaming
JasonCipriano: you need a conflict in order for it to be enjoyable
TraceyJohn: Do you?
JasonCipriano: man vs. man, man vs. nature, man vs. self
JasonCipriano: c'mon I know you learned about these when you were in high school
TraceyJohn: Yeah, but that doesn't mean I have to have those elements in a game to be enjoyable
JasonCipriano: enjoyable might have been the wrong word
JasonCipriano: but for it to be game by definition
JasonCipriano: there needs to be some kind of goal
TraceyJohn: Well there's a few "goals" in "Endless Ocean"
TraceyJohn: discover sea life, find collectibles, take people scuba diving as missions
JasonMitchell: you need something to drive you to play it, what does "Endless Ocean" offer
JasonCipriano: last I checked petting a penguin wasn't that great a goal for me
TraceyJohn: well that's just your opinion
TraceyJohn: I like penguins
JasonCipriano: thats soooo borderline "Sims" that it makes me bored just reading it
JasonMitchell: finding collectibles is the worst part of games these days
JasonCipriano: I LOVE PENGUINS
JasonCipriano: and cats
JasonCipriano: but I mean that's just not enough to drive me to go play it
JasonCipriano: even though Nintendo released it
TraceyJohn: This from the guy who collected all 100 cats in "Superman Returns"
TraceyJohn: How is that not boring?
JasonCipriano: like I said I love cats
JasonCipriano: oh it was boring
TraceyJohn: So what if someone loves sealife?
JasonCipriano: BUT THERE WAS A POINT
JasonCipriano: a goal
JasonCipriano: I wanted the Achievement points
JasonCipriano: and I got them
TraceyJohn: Just because you don't "beat" a "boss" or find sealife (or reading) interesting does it make "Endless Ocean" not a good game?
JasonCipriano: it's a non-game
JasonCipriano: you play it
JasonCipriano: but not in the way you play other games
JasonCipriano: it's like a renaissance fair
JasonCipriano: you play the old timey characters
JasonCipriano: but you're not actually... wow, I didn't really think this one through
TraceyJohn: Mitch what do you think? "Endless Ocean" is your choice too.
JasonMitchell: I wouldn't call it a "game"
JasonMitchell: it's like an exploration sim... how's that sound
JasonCipriano: ok
JasonMitchell: and my biggest problem with that (besides that I just wouldn't really enjoy playing it) is that if you have a game where the whole goal is exploring, then it should look awesome
JasonCipriano: I agree with Mitch on that
JasonMitchell: and it's just okay. it should be HD
JasonMitchell: or just not exist
JasonMitchell: also from what I've seen there just isn't enough to do
JasonCipriano: yeah - but that's a drawback of the Wii
JasonCipriano: thats not the game's fault
TraceyJohn: "game" or "experience" or whatever you want to call it, I thought it was enjoyable. Of course it would look better in HD
TraceyJohn: but I saw it on Totilo's standard TV (vs. my HDTV at home) and it didn't look bad on the standard TV
JasonCipriano: I think there's a lot to do - but like how much fun is it to virtually swim around an ocean
JasonCipriano: about as much fun as it is to virtually clean a kitchen
JasonCipriano: or virtually take a shower
JasonMitchell: like I can understand people that play "Sims" games or "Viva Pinata" there is a lot to do but this game was way too simple
TraceyJohn: well, I liked "The Sims"...
JasonCipriano: there's almost too much to do in "Viva Pinata" - I don't know how that game is really targeted at kids
JasonCipriano: but that's a whole different subject
TraceyJohn: Have you two actually played "Endless Ocean"?
JasonMitchell: I've seen G and Totes play it
JasonCipriano: I actually played it before G
JasonMitchell: I wish I could get those 15 minutes back
JasonCipriano: and it didn't grab my attention in the first 10 minutes
JasonMitchell: yeah a game should grab you pretty quickly or it's not doing its job
JasonCipriano: if there was even the slightest chance of being attacked by a shark
JasonCipriano: I'd probably give it a shot
TraceyJohn: It's rated E
JasonCipriano: give the diver a harpoon gun
JasonCipriano: maybe hunt some whales
JasonCipriano: ya know
TraceyJohn: way to take it to another level, Cip
JasonCipriano: that would add a little struggle - some conflict to the situation
TraceyJohn: I'm just saying, game or not I can see why more casual players would enjoy it
JasonCipriano: damn casual gamers
JasonCipriano: ruining my consoles
TraceyJohn: now I see where this hostility is coming from
JasonCipriano: again - that's a whole different can of worms
TraceyJohn: bring it on. If it reinforces why you hate "Endless Ocean"
JasonMitchell: honestly, how long do you think you will actually play this game, tracey?
TraceyJohn: I played it for an hour last night
TraceyJohn: to see why Totilo was filled with glee
TraceyJohn: when he found a humpback whale (no joke)
JasonMitchell: and were you also filled with glee?
TraceyJohn: Maybe I'll get bored, but I gave it an hour. It is a really simple game
TraceyJohn: it doesn't seem like there's a whole lot to do, but I don't dislike it
JasonMitchell: also, I was there when he found the whale... not impressed
JasonMitchell: then I was like okay now what do we do now that we found it... and he's like, "Oh we can pet it..." BFD
JasonCipriano: the game was made for everyone in my elementary school that said they wanted to be a marine biologist - but then never got around to it
JasonCipriano: he was filled with glee cuz something actually happened after 4 hours of exploring the vast depths of the empty ocean
JasonCipriano: and really - what humpback is going to let you pet it
TraceyJohn: how do you know? Have you seen one up close?
JasonCipriano: I did ... "Free Willy 2" is based on me -- and the killer whale was actually a humpback - they had to spice it up for theaters
JasonMitchell: seriously though you find some exotic and/or cool animal and then what... I can't even catch it with a Poké Ball
JasonCipriano: CHARIZARD, I CHOOSE YOU!
JasonCipriano: wait
JasonCipriano: HUMPY, I CHOOSE YOU!
JasonCipriano: Anywho - so me and Mitch are passing on "Endless Ocean" - for so many different reasons - what aren't you playing this week, Trace?
TraceyJohn: "Ship Simulator." Why? because there's no boss! No real goals! Lots of reading! It's endless!
TraceyJohn: (Or really, I just don't care about piloting my own oil rig)
JasonCipriano: good call
JasonCipriano: I wont be playing that either then
JasonCipriano: although that does seem to have kind of a unique premise
TraceyJohn: that was sarcasm
JasonCipriano: oh
JasonCipriano: well crap
TraceyJohn: which is my exact argument for playing "Endless Ocean"!
JasonCipriano: unique premise?
TraceyJohn: sheesh, you guys give me headaches
TraceyJohn: what was the last ocean sim you played or heard about?
JasonCipriano: "Everblue" for the PS2
JasonCipriano: made by the same developer as "Endless Ocean"
TraceyJohn: and how did you like that game?
JasonCipriano: I didn't play that either (see my reasons above)
JasonMitchell: "Ecco the Dolphin" was awesome but you had a mission save your pod. it made exploring the ocean fun
TraceyJohn: but "Ecco the Dolphin" wasn't meant to be like exploring the oceans in "Endless Ocean"
JasonMitchell: yeah it was fun
JasonCipriano: and there was a goal
JasonCipriano: save the world or something
JasonMitchell: and it was only 16-bit and it kind of looked better in a way
TraceyJohn: There are goals in "Endless Ocean," rather lax ones tho
JasonMitchell: waste all your time
JasonMitchell: that's the goal
JasonCipriano: So what are you really not playing this week?
TraceyJohn: I would actually play any game. Even "Ship Simulator." I guess the only one I wouldn't play is "Pet Vet 3D: Animal Hospital Down Under" for a few reasons
JasonCipriano: Down Under?
JasonCipriano: really?
JasonCipriano: they had to spice it up by going Australian
TraceyJohn: Go down under with exotic Australian animals
JasonCipriano: do you get to hunt them at least?
TraceyJohn: why always with the killing???
JasonCipriano: then shoot them?
JasonCipriano: then fix them up?
JasonCipriano: I don't know
JasonCipriano: I think years of video games have de-sensitized me
JasonCipriano: that and I've been playing "Cabela's Big Game Hunter 2008" all week
JasonCipriano: so what are your reasons?
TraceyJohn: well the silly name to begin with
TraceyJohn: and how many animal doctor games do we need?
JasonCipriano: what system is it?
TraceyJohn: PC
JasonCipriano: there's others?
JasonCipriano: this is a sequel?
TraceyJohn: "Pet Pals: Animal Doctor"
TraceyJohn: "Imagine Animal Doctor"
TraceyJohn: "Zoo Hospital"
TraceyJohn: etc.
JasonMitchell: so because there has been a ton of car racing game in the past you aren't going to play Burnout: Paradise City"?
JasonCipriano: kids want to be vets when they grow up
JasonCipriano: kinda like marine biologists
JasonCipriano: so then it looks like the animals get no love this week - "Endless Ocean" sinks for Mitchell and myself, and "Pet Vet 3D" is not going to make it's way to Tracey's PC
JasonCipriano: and that's a wrap