Yesterday, I posted an interview I did with Morgan Webb, co-host of G4’s “X-Play,” about being a highly visible woman working in the games industry.
Webb’s interview is part of Multiplayer’s special week-long series called “Women Working in Games.” A few weeks ago, I decided to speak to a few prominent women in gaming to find out about their personal experiences working in the male-dominated field.
Aside from Webb, another woman that I really wanted to talk to for my set of interviews was Jane Pinckard of Game Girl Advance. For years, Pinckard has written and talked about gender and games, and she recently wrote what I thought was a passionate and thought-provoking entry about all the attention surrounding “Assassin’s Creed” producer Jade Raymond. In it, she captures the anger, frustration, sadness and ambivalence that I — and perhaps other people — have felt about gender issues in gaming, which seems to have come to a head once again.
On November 29, I called Pinckard while she was at the Montreal International Game Summit to talk about gender in the gaming space. Here’s a tidbit from our conversation, where she mentions the sexualized Jade Raymond comic when we talk about the kind of comments women can get:
Pinckard: The whole Jade Raymond comic thing to me… it’s a super big deal, and it’s terrible. And if you are a woman, let alone Jade — that comic affected me as a woman. I saw that, and I was like this is an attack on me and on you and on all of us. And the thing is the guys just didn’t get it. They were like, “What? It’s the Internet. Don’t take it so seriously” and that kind of thing. … some people really didn’t get it.
Read on for more of Pinckard’s thoughts on Lara Croft, Ubisoft and what women can do to thrive and survive in the video games industry…
Jane Pinckard didn’t intend to go into video game journalism. But in 2002, the now 34 year-old started her gaming blog mainly because she wasn’t finding anything she wanted to read about games. “The reason my blog is named ‘Game Girl Advance’ is because I was really into the Game Boy, the Game Boy Advance,” Pinckard told me. “I loved that thing, and I carried it everywhere with me. But I was like, ‘Why does it have to be Game Boy Advance? Why do they assume that it’s going to be for a boy?’ And that really annoyed me. I said to myself, ‘They should call it Game Girl Advance,’ and I was like ‘That’s a great name for a blog!’”
From there, she began writing for magazines like GamePro and Xbox Nation, and worked at Ziff Davis and the CMP Game Group. She’s currently freelancing and writing posts on Game Girl Advance, though she’s about to start a job in business development for a video game studio (she declined to name the company at the time).
Multiplayer: Throughout your work, do you think that being a woman has posed any challenges to you that you don’t think men would have faced?
Pinckard: Yeah, I have to say it’s challenges and opportunities, to be frank. Because — and I’ve written a little bit about this before — if you’re a woman in a male-dominated field, you’re naturally going to stand out. And that’s good and bad. It’s good, because people remember you, and you’re noticeable. And when you go to a conference of 3,000 people, and there’s only 50 women, you’re one of them. And they’re like “Oh, you’re the girl.” And it’s bad, because they say “Oh, you’re the girl,” and they tend to not know anything else about you except that you are the girl. And that can be challenging to overcome, because there’s this perception that if you are “the girl” then you must speak for all women. And so they’re going to ask you like, “Well, I want to design a game for women. So we’re asking you, one woman, what should we do?” [Laughs] And that’s ridiculous.
There’s also sometimes a perception that you got to where you are because you are a woman. And that can be a bit tough, too. And then there’s just the challenge of working in a male-dominated field, where you’re just working with a bunch of boys. And I’m sure you’ve maybe experienced this too, where there’s a huge gender imbalance in the workplace. And there are some serious things about sexual harassment and stuff like that that do happen. I personally have not experienced that, but there’s just moments where you’re like, “God, you guys are just a bunch of boys. Grow up!”
I think my favorite type of workplace is the gender-balanced workplace. I don’t know exactly, but I think there have been studies that show that those tend to be more productive and more progressive and all that good stuff. So I think one of either gender’s too much. And then there’s some more serious things too, like I’ve been called lots of names. When I write about controversial things on my blog I’ve been accused of setting feminism back ten years. I’m like “Wha?” [Laughs] Just things like that. I think that’s also just the nature of the Internet. The Internet is full of people who like to proclaim these kinds of things about other people without knowing you at all.
Multiplayer: Some people would argue that guys who write for Kotaku get the same amount of flack. Do you feel that you get a little bit more because you’re a woman games blogger?
Pinckard: The feminism thing, well that hurt, because I’m a feminist — come on now, people! But I think they get the same amount of flack, like you read their comments and they’re like “Brian Crecente, you idiot!” But I think that women are subject to sometimes a different quality of comments…
Multiplayer: That are more appearance-based?
Pinckard: Yeah, and more sexualized comments as well. The whole Jade Raymond comic thing to me… it’s a super big deal, and it’s terrible. And if you are a woman, let alone Jade — that comic affected me as a woman. I saw that, and I was like this is an attack on me and on you and on all of us. And the thing is the guys just didn’t get it. They were like, “What? It’s the Internet. Don’t take it so seriously” and that kind of thing.
Multiplayer: Yeah, I read some comments that said, “Oh if were her, I’d be flattered.” How is that flattering in any way?
Pinckard: Yeah, some people really didn’t get it. … I think a lot of men don’t get it. I interviewed recently at another game development job, which was all guys. And they were great guys, and they really wanted women on the core design team and all that good stuff, but there were still some things about their attitude where they would joke about like ,”Oh yeah, we’re like an HR disaster waiting to happen!” And I’m like, “I get you guys, but if you really want to hire more women you’ve got to straighten up.” You can’t run it like a club house. Women just don’t feel safe and comfortable in that kind of environment. And so I think the industry needs to do a lot more to — and maybe it’s just maturing and growing up a little and not allowing these kinds of dorm room attitudes to pervade. Because frankly I don’t think women are going to stick around for that kind of stuff.
Multiplayer: Right. Though I do feel like a lot of women who work in a male-dominated workplace can and do have a certain sense of humor, but then sometimes it can go too far. And some guys aren’t really sensitive to that. So where do you draw the line? Because you still want to have people be themselves and be able to joke around but not step over that line…
Pinckard: Yeah, I think that’s a really good point. That’s a huge challenge, because a lot of the game industry — the reason it’s fun is because there’s a certain looseness in the attitude. And that’s not like the financial world, and it’s not like working at IBM. And if it were, it would be a lot less fun and not as interesting and creative. And I think that’s true anytime you get a bunch of creatives together. Creatives tend to be a little bit more like loose cannons maybe than other types. And that’s all good but at the same time, yeah, you’re right, you have to foster this sense of deep respect for your colleagues, including your female colleagues. And everyone has to have that. Everyone has to internalize that. And once that’s there I think there’s more room for jokes. And I certainly know women who make lots of jokes, including sexual jokes, off-color jokes, whatever, and it’s all within this context where they feel safe, and it’s okay. But then when you don’t have that context, then you’re not going to feel safe, and you’re not going to want to participate.
Multiplayer: When you mentioned you were going for different jobs, and they told you they wanted women on their core team, did you feel weird when they said that to you?
Pinckard: A tiny bit, but they were also very clear about why they wanted women. So I think it’s all about motivation. Like do they want me because they want a Jade Raymond effect? Do they want a pretty spokesperson? Or do they want me because they realize that they want to design a game that also appeals to women so they need to hire more women? If being a woman is the only qualifying metric that they use, then that’s stupid. They’re not going to get anywhere, and I hope that people don’t hire that way, because that’s ultimately setting women up for more failure. You hired an incompetent but pretty person as a producer, but she can’t do her job because she’s not trained for it, and then she enforces the stereotype that women can’t do their jobs.
But I believe in affirmative action. I think that there is an inherent value to diversity on teams, and I would also like to see more game developers hire more African-Americans, for example. Like I can think of maybe like three African-American developers off the top of my head. And that’s kind of criminal considering how many African-Americans play games, especially sports games, which are hugely popular. It seems weird to me. Like why wouldn’t you want to do that? Why wouldn’t you say that diversity is important on your team? And being a woman is part of that, but yeah, it has to do with the motivation, and if they are also looking for other qualities other than just the color of your skin or what gender you are.
Multiplayer: But what about in the case of Jade Raymond? She was certainly qualified but was also considered a pretty spokesperson for her game. Could she have done anything?
Pinckard: I don’t know that she could have done anything, actually. She is genetically, accidentally blessed with a combination of smarts and ambition and looks that our culture happens to find attractive, and that’s not her fault. I think that she’s always been charismatic, and even more than just being physically attractive, she can convey a passion for the game. She comes off very well on camera. She’s very likable. She has what a friend of mine calls the “Julia Roberts effect,” where it makes people like her. She’s a little bit goofy, and she seems like a real human. And I think that is supremely valuable, because, as an industry, don’t we want more people to understand that games aren’t freaky, violent products? But that they can be made by someone as articulate, and as attractive, as Jade is?
She went on this French language program — I forget what the name of the program is — but she was the first game designer to go on this French language program, and all these parents saw it, and they were calling up their kids saying like, “Oh, I saw this very nice young woman talking about games, and I don’t think games are so bad anymore.” So I think it has a really positive effect. And I think we do need more charismatic spokespeople, wherever they come from. And in her case, yeah, she has a real background in programming. She’s done tons of stuff before. And then she got picked up by G4, and of course she’s not going to turn that down because it’s a chance to be a game developer and to talk about games. What game developer wouldn’t want that? What game developer’s going to turn that down, a chance for them to explain why games are cool to a wider audience?
And then I think, I don’t know exactly how it happened, but I think Ubisoft noticed the amount of press that she was getting, and they did what most companies would do, which is they exploited that. I like Ubisoft and all, but they don’t care about Jade as much as they care about their bottom dollar, and they’re going to do what they think works. And if the GameTrailers interviews that have Jade on them get like 20 times the hits as any other product that they put out, what are they going to do? They’re going to put her in front of the camera. I think they created a lot of resentment though, both internally and maybe externally. I think a lot of men were resentful of her stature, and maybe some of them thought she didn’t deserve it, and they deserved it more or whatever. It’s difficult. It’s complicated.
Multiplayer: And what do you think about the gaming press and gamers’ reactions to her?
Pinckard: Well, to be honest, I’ve sort of avoided the worst reactions, just because I don’t want to be upset. It astonished me actually that I read a lot of feedback or heard a lot of people saying, “I’ve never heard of Jade until this,” or “I had no idea that she was anything before she was a G4 host.” And so that kind of astonished me a little, because if you just do a little Google searching you’ll see her list of credits, bios and stuff. So number one was that people didn’t really seem to know who she was or really know her background, and they just accepted her on the surface as this spokesperson, which disappointed me.
And number two, this sort of attitude of that’s just how fame is. Like, “Oh well! That’s what happens when you get famous. Too bad!” And they weren’t quite saying it’s her fault. Some of them did, but they were sort of veering in that direction. And I do agree that the celebrity culture is supremely f–ked up. Like I feel sorry for Lindsay Lohan. Really I do. How can you have a normal life when you have to live in front of the cameras like that? But I also think that that doesn’t make it right.
Multiplayer: But I think that kind of attention is new on the game development side. No one has really gotten that kind of Lindsay Lohan treatment before.
Pinckard: Yeah, you’re right. Exactly. The closest people that we can think of that have that are like Will Wright and Shigeru Miyamoto. But those guys have been around for a while.
Multiplayer: And no one’s talking about what they wear or how they look.
Pinckard: Yeah, completely. And the thing is, those dudes who are like, “It’s not a big deal. I’d be flattered if it happened to me,” or whatever, it’s like, really would you? If you were depicted giving a f–king blowjob to these gamer geeks, you would think that’s flattering? They would go ballistic. And they don’t even think about that. It’s really difficult for them to consider.
Multiplayer: Do you think that game companies are responsible for the images of their employees, particularly in the case of Ubisoft and Jade Raymond?
Pinckard: Well, I know in my post I kind of called out Ubisoft because I do think they’ve, in this case, sort of pushed her beyond what was proportionally appropriate. Usually the creative directors are the ones who get pushed out. You think of Harvey Smith with “BlackSite: Area 51.” Usually it’s that role that gets the promotion, and in this case it’s the producer. And although the producers often go on PR stuff, and I’ve talked to a lot of producers about their games, they’re not usually the lead spokesperson. So I think in this case that’s what the gamers saw as inauthentic. Gamers are really smart like that. They can really sniff out these PR things. So a lot of the comments were along the lines of, “She’s just a producer. She had no creative input.” Which isn’t strictly true. It depends on the company. Sometimes producers have a lot of creative input. Whatever, it doesn’t matter. According to the way the rest of the industry works, that’s pretty much true. I think in that sense maybe Ubisoft is in some way responsible for pushing her beyond what they would normally have done. And I think that was the source of a lot of jealousy.
Multiplayer: Why do you think gamers and the gaming press focus on women the way they do?
Pinckard: You know, I think that’s just the nature of who we are as human society. That’s why there is this celebrity culture and why we revere attractive people, and then also can’t wait to tear them down. [Laughs] I think it’s a confluence of factors. It’s the fact that Jade is attractive to the gaming press, of course you’re going to write about her. And once that happens Ubisoft is going to push her more because they realize she gets press and then she’s going to continue to do it because it’s her job, and as a producer what do you want? You want to sell copies of your game and make sure the game is successful. You do that by going out and doing interviews, representing your game. You know, you can’t fault any of them really for doing their jobs. …
I mean, I think it’s tough. Because if you’re an attractive woman in the industry, there’s a fine line between promotion that’s going to enhance your brand and be good for you and make you into a celebrity, and there is a strength in being a celebrity, right? There is definitely a strength to Jade now that she’s famous and she can go where she wants and she has more clout to do what she wants and to have more control over what she works on, and that’s all really good. On the other hand, where is the line? Obviously for Jade, she was offended that somebody would think that she would even do a Maxim cover or strip, and I think some women would. … So where is that line? I don’t know.
Multiplayer: Do you think that the image of female video game characters, like Lara Croft for example, affect how women are viewed?
Pinckard: That’s a neat question. Well, I think the image of female game characters is not unique to games. I think you see it in comic books and the sort of pulp fiction and stuff like that. So I think it just comes from a tradition of that kind of stuff. And I think it is changing, like it has changed in comics. It used to be in the ’60s and ’70s, female characters were all sort of drawn in a certain way, and now you have the rise of indie comics with very unusual female characters. And I do think that is happening with games, as well.
The Lara Croft thing is a tough one, because there’s this woman that I met at Stanford Law who was a gamer, and she loved Lara Croft, and she had Lara Croft as her desktop wallpaper, and then she was told by people at her work that that was considered sexual harassment and she had to take it down. And she was like, “But she’s my hero!” [Laughs] You know? She took it down. What could she do? But she was like, it’s kind of tragic that one woman’s hero becomes another woman’s — I don’t know — unpleasant reminder of the sexualized nature of the avatars.
So I think for me Lara Croft, the design of her was not as offensive as the way that she was marketed. And I separate those two. I think when Toby [Gard] designed Lara Croft, he did design her to be this basically over-the-top superhero. And then when marketing got a hold of her, they had her pose topless with Duke Nukem’s hands on her boobs, and they had her do these stupid pictorials. And Toby, the creator was like, “Lara Croft, my character, would never do those. She is a classy, strong woman.” He felt like he had lost control over how she was depicted and presented. And of course she’s virtual; she can’t say no. They can make her do whatever they want. Which is another interesting form of manipulation. Because at least Jade can say no.
Multiplayer: On one hand, people notice Lara Croft for her proportions, but at the same time, people love and respect those games because she’s a strong female protagonist. And it is sort of the same thing with comics, too. Wonder Woman is known for strutting around in almost no clothes, but at the same time her character is strong-willed. So I think being a powerful woman who’s sexy isn’t necessarily a bad thing…
Pinckard: I think you totally hit the nail on the head. It’s about how the character behaves. I think that’s more important. So when a character is made to appear nude in Playboy pictorials… First of all, come on, people. It’s a f–king digital character. You really need to see her boobs? Draw some boobs and look at that instead. And I wonder if there were ever female gamers who felt betrayed by that. Like, “Oh my God, my icon… I can’t believe she would do that.” I do think that right now for me a more important point is the lack of any female models at all in some games. And I think that games are getting away from this, but remember the first “Fable“? I was so pissed that you couldn’t play as a female. And I was just like, come on. Would it really have been that hard to have a female skin, you know?
Multiplayer: I totally agree. Like in “Crackdown.” I love that game, but why can’t I just be a woman? Why can’t I be a genetically enhanced female agent running around the city? [Here’s why.]
Pinckard: Yeah, totally. And even with “Halo.” I remember playing co-op, we used to play multiplayer all the time and it was me, my sister and my friends Jason and Jolene. It was boys and girls, and it was like, “How come there’s no females?” So instead we’d color our suits pink and red and orange and these more feminine colors, because that was all we had to distinguish. When I’m running around on the multiplayer map, I want people to know that it’s me, and I want people to know that I’m Jane and I’m a girl and I’m going to try to frag you! Although I’m really bad at those games. But I think that’s a problem.
Multiplayer: Some women argue, “There’s no difference. I like ‘Halo’ just like anyone else. End of story.” And then others obviously think that there’s enough of a difference to where they are part of female gamer clans and stuff. Do you think there’s a fundamental difference between male and female gamers?
Pinckard: I think there are differences between men and women, period, and that probably extends to gamers. But just because a difference exists, though, it doesn’t mean that men and women can’t enjoy the same games. And I think that’s clear. I mean, “Halo” is a great example, because it does have crossover appeal in a lot of ways. And my sister, who isn’t really a gamer, she just buys maybe two games every six months and then plays those or just comes over to my house to play “Halo.” She really only plays “Halo” pretty much these days. But “Halo” is a sort of an intuitive FPS console game. It’s somewhat accessible, so I think that it can appeal to men and women.
I also think that there’s lots of evidence that women do really like and excel at hardcore PVP or “Quake Wars” type of games as well. But I would say those women are the exception. Demographically speaking, they are the exception. That’s not to invalidate their choices, but it’s to say that they’re already kind of a self-selecting and special group. And not all women are like that obviously, for a variety of reasons.
So I think it’s important to have a diversity in the media that we offer to people. Because people have different tastes, and it’s true that women don’t tend to enjoy games like “Quake.” I mean, I don’t. I can play them, and I used to like them, and I wonder too if it has to do with getting older. Like I used to love competitive games a lot, when I was in my twenties, you know, and I loved shooting at people and that adrenaline rush. And now I find that that’s not as satisfying to me, for whatever reason. Maybe I’m looking for different experiences, and I think at the conference, at the last couple of days, a lot of people touched on this idea that we, as gamers, are getting older. We’re having children. We’re married. We have these deep social relationships. We want something more from our games than what we used to want when we were younger, when we used to be satisfied with power fantasies and these very simple sort of epic experiences. And now we’re saying, “What’s the next level? What else is it that games can deliver to me emotionally?”
Multiplayer: Right, and I think I read this on N’Gai Croal’s blog, where there was a reader that was like, “I’m a dad, and I love hardcore games, but like I just don’t have the time. I need something that’s shorter, and easy to save, but gives me the satisfaction I would get from a hardcore gamer’s game. I would think that’s a big challenge for game developers to sort of create that experience.
Pinckard: Totally. I absolutely agree. And I also think that women have traditionally been at the forefront of this, because they’re burdened with more than their fair share of house work and childcare, usually. That’s just statistical. And so they’re going to have less leisure time for games. Now men are sort of catching up. But I think women have always been less free to play games the way that men have. So maybe that’s why women play casual games or they play more casually. And they just don’t want the same kind of game that requires 20, 40 hours of play. I think that’s totally right.
Multiplayer: Before, you had mentioned something about when people want to design games for women, they ask your opinion. [Former EDGE editor-in-chief] Margaret Robertson mentioned on her blog that she’s uncomfortable with being the spokesperson for 51% of the world’s population. Obviously, you’re very vocal about your beliefs. Do you feel comfortable with being a mouthpiece for female gamers?
Pinckard: That’s a really good question, because I think I feel ambivalent about it. On the one hand, any time women get asked to speak about games I think they should, just to be visible and show we’re out there and we’re normal. And so I rarely turn down speaking requests. And it’s not like I get a ton, but I’ve spoken at South by Southwest a few times and stuff like that. So I rarely turn it down. But I also try to make it clear when I’m on the panel, or whatever it is, to say like you can’t distill the preferences of an entire gender to the three people on this panel. That’s impossible. So I try to navigate that by accepting [speaking engagements], because I think it’s important to talk about these issues, but then I say that these issues are way too big for us to really explain in the course of this 45-minute presentation.
Multiplayer: What do you think that women can do in the industry to overcome sexism?
Pinckard: That is a great question. I think there’s two big things that we can do. One is to support other women in the industry, wherever they are. Support the ones that are doing good work. … Really support the ones who you think are doing the right things, making the right choices and who are admirable, and support each other. I support just in little ways. Like when students write to me to ask about stuff, I almost always answer as much as I can, because more women in the industry’s a good thing.
And second, don’t take this s–t lying down. When stuff like this happens, say something. Like if people are forwarding this s–t to you at work, go to your manager or even go to f–king HR and say this is unacceptable. Don’t be like, “Oh well, it’s a boys’ world and I’m the only girl in the company. What can I do?” That’s bulls–t. You belong there, too. You were hired for a reason. So have some self-esteem and do something. And say controversial things. And you’ll get attacked, and you’ll get called a “bitch” and all this stuff. So what? More people are going to agree with you I think than not.
Multiplayer: At least just get it out there for discussion.
Pinckard: Yeah, like you’re doing. Don’t pretend that it’s a problem that’s going to go away.
Got thoughts on Jane Pinckard’s interview? Let us know! And check back later to see more interviews from women working in games. Next up: “Assassin’s Creed”’s Elspeth Tory, “Sex in Video Games” author Brenda Brathwaite and Sega PR’s Tali Fischer.
December 11th, 2007 at 2:01 pm
Nice work. I’d be interested to have heard Jane respond to Morgan Webb’s decision to star in male-directed sexualized pictorials, given this quote: “Obviously for Jade, she was offended that somebody would think that she would even do a Maxim cover or strip, and I think some women would. … So where is that line? I don’t know.”
December 11th, 2007 at 2:54 pm
This article was fantastic - Thanks for doing such a killer piece, Tracey!
December 11th, 2007 at 2:56 pm
Interesting interview, especially on thoughts on gaming itself. I’m interested in how the interviewees perceive Bioshock as a game that uses gender issues to bring up what I perceive as human interaction issues. Examples of this might include what are you willing to do to Little Sisters? Is your reaction to female splicers different from your reaction to male splicers? The part of the story about a woman being driven to physical mutilation in the name of “perfection.” Or in a supposed utopia, that there are still the stereotypical male entertainments.
I’m not connected with the game in any way, but it seems to me that their use of gender issues is part of why the game has had so much emotional effect on so many people.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:42 pm
A couple of comments. Her sympathy for a Lindsay Lohan may be a bit misplaced if she realized that publicists typically call the paparazzi ahead of time to tell them where the celebrity will be. They want to be photographed, because it keeps them in the public eye, drives up their “Q score,” and raises their salaries for rolls.
Also, this comment—”And then when marketing got a hold of her, they had her pose topless with Duke Nukem’s hands on her boobs”—is, if I recall, incorrect. It wasn’t marketing that created that image; it was Next Generation Magazine that created that illustration for a cover.
December 11th, 2007 at 5:19 pm
Again excellent interview. Jane’s writing has been an inspiration for me for years now.
December 11th, 2007 at 6:18 pm
That’s one hell of an interview! Well done both of you. I think the greatest bar to women entering the industry is very much what Jane mentioned, it’s damn hard to gain respect for your abilities without being seen as simply fulfilling an HR quota to have women. Thankfully there are good women in the industry and I think as the demographics widen more and more young girls will become interested. I’m glad to see Jane acknowledge that Ubisoft was thrusting Jade out there a disproportionate amount. I still can’t claim to know what her level of input on the creative side of the game was, but I would guess Patrice had more and he seemed to be a marketing afterthought. Hopefully we’ll move to a place where women aren’t being exploited by their own marketing departments because they think it will make them a quick buck.
All in all, great read.
December 12th, 2007 at 3:04 am
Awesome interview. It’s thoughts like these that give me hope for the future of the quality of our games, not just in regards to game play, but in the messages that they send to younger gamers about the roles of different people (not just gender, but race too).
Also, I definitely agree with the views about gender balance in the workplace. I actually work at IBM (where’s the love? we have fun too!
), and from experience on different teams, my current one, in which nearly half are women (9:8, I believe), I definitely feel a positive difference versus my former predominately male team. Granted other factors apply and it’s not perfect. Also nothing was bad with my former team, I just feel having that balance improves the working environment.
I definitely feel that these views on matters really exemplify where we as a society should be going in general: equality, balance and above all, understanding. So…. Great job!
December 12th, 2007 at 9:29 am
[…] rest of the Pickard interview can be read at Game MTV. Those not interested in reading may click MORE for a super cute picture of Jade! Written by […]
December 12th, 2007 at 10:34 am
I think the anger at Ubisoft is misdirected. CliffyB is a good looking guy and does interviews all the time when new Epic games are released, much to the delight of some female gamers.
The difference is the response of the community. I can’t recall a similar comic being created about Cliffy and that’s what makes the community response disgusting and deplorable.
Ubisoft is just doing what many other companies have done in the past with charismatic employees and that’s put them in the public eye. No harm no foul.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:57 am
[…] a great interview with Jane Pinckard at the MTV Multiplayer blog (found via Kotaku). As an aside, I keep finding great links to this […]
December 12th, 2007 at 12:38 pm
[…] I spoke with two journalists: Morgan Webb of G4’s “X-Play” and Jane Pinckard of the blog Game Girl Advance. They both had different perspectives about being a woman working in […]
December 12th, 2007 at 12:43 pm
Here’s the real issue with Jade Raymond, Ubisoft, and the comic made about Jade.
Real gamers care about the gamers, first and foremost. They want to see how the game handles, what it’s about, etc.
They don’t want to see the producer talk about the clothes she bought in Brazil (which she actually did in an interview), or see her put on a ridiculously high pedestal compared to her coworkers, regardless of sex. When you see a beautiful girl shoved in your face all the time, to the point where it seems like the emphasis is on the GIRL more than the GAME, you start to get annoyed by it if you’re really into video games.
Look at Portal. Has the woman who worked on THAT been treated badly by gamers for being a woman? No. Why? Because the focus was on the game. Not on her being a woman.
The underlying message of the comic isn’t “Beautiful girl gamers in the industry are not allowed!” or even the same sentence without the beautiful part. The message is “Don’t use sexuality of the real world to promote your game.” Most real gamers don’t care if it’s a man or woman working on the game. What they care about is how the industry, and the gaming community itself, gets treated by companies. We don’t want to see every gaming company in the industry make the focus on how they have a hot woman working on it. If anything, as disrespectful as it is to the PERSON, it’s an attempt at respect toward the female sex. The attention should never be on how the person is a woman, only on the person’s qualifications and actual contributions to the project.
Is the comic overly harsh? Yes. Is its message important? Also yes. Is it about punishing women for being in the industry? No. Because nobody cares about that. All good-natured sexism jokes aside, the only thing gamers really care about is the games themselves. I feel bad for Jade, I really do, but the message had to get out some way and at some point. If not today in its early stages, then months or years from now when every company saw the success generated by situations like Assassin’s Creed and Jade and decided to cash in by going the same route.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:48 pm
Morgan Webb doesn’t work in the games industry, she works for the PR industry.
December 12th, 2007 at 1:31 pm
A hypothetical situation.
Let’s say you’ve got someone who’s championing the cause of women in a specific industry, and she’s all about empowering women, and against their denigration. Sounds great, right?
Then you look back at her own history, and find that she’s done some of the exploitative things to herself on her own, like writing an article about how she used a gaming peripheral as a sexual aid, and posting pictures of herself doing so.
How do you bring those two together without losing some sort of credibility?
I’ve got nothing against Ms. Pinckard’s message, but I do think it’s overblown. Jade Raymond is a producer. She’s worked on a decent game (Assassin’s Creed), and a few others that weren’t so hot, much like most of us in the game development industry. That doesn’t mean that she’s the AWESOME developer that people make her out to be, nor does it make her the whore that the derogatory comments insinuate.
Ms. Pinckard, however, needs to slow her roll. If she’s all up against the exploitation of women, she should probably remove her old post on her blog.
http://www.gamegirladvance.com/archives/2002/10/26/sex_in_games_rezvibrator.html
December 12th, 2007 at 1:51 pm
Jesus Christ, this is the most offensive gaming article I’ve ever read. How ignorant do you have to be to earnestly believe that a comic about a company that used the image of a semi-attractive woman to sell a game rather than show people that they made a good game that could live up to all the hype is somehow an attack on an entire community? It’s these illusions of grandeur that cause people to do things like this in the first place.
There is no significant meaning behind it. It illustrates and exaggerates the point that she used her image to sell the game. It’s not like men don’t “get it,” there’s simply nothing to get. It’s not like there are no women in the industry but when you set out to get attention, you shouldn’t feel bad when you garner it, negative or not.
There really isn’t any other point I can make that Zog hasn’t already illustrated.
December 12th, 2007 at 2:54 pm
So let me get this straight. First:
“If being a woman is the only qualifying metric that they use, then that’s stupid. They’re not going to get anywhere, and I hope that people don’t hire that way, because that’s ultimately setting women up for more failure. You hired an incompetent but pretty person as a producer, but she can’t do her job because she’s not trained for it, and then she enforces the stereotype that women can’t do their jobs.”
Then:
“But I believe in affirmative action.”
And then, also:
“I think my favorite type of workplace is the gender-balanced workplace. I don’t know exactly, but I think there have been studies that show that those tend to be more productive and more progressive and all that good stuff. So I think one of either gender’s too much.”
So which is it, Jane Pinckard? You can’t have it both ways. You seem to want it all with regards to the games industry right now, and it looks like you won’t be comfortable until women dominate it and relegate men to a side note. Maybe then you can play out your ultimate fantasy and ban men from creating, buying, or playing video games at all.
Look, the game industry got along just fine without girls. It does get along fine without girls, and it WILL get along fine without girls. We don’t need girl gamers and women in the industry, and we never did. Men created and built the industry (all the while suffering the insults of women who insinuated we were playing around with children’s toys), and we define it now. We will continue to do so in the near and far future, as well.
Oh, and the reason it’s called a Game BOY Advance? Because, the few exceptions notwithstanding, BOYS BOUGHT IT. GIRLS DID NOT. Not so hard to understand, is it?
December 12th, 2007 at 3:13 pm
Great interview, Tracey!
December 12th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
@Devon: You will not see this industry demoninated or have a huge following among girls. WHY???, because of the 60+ hour weeks. I work right now in software development industry (not games) and when we get to crunch time (60+) hours a week, most of the women bail on us. I am not kidding, I am a manager of a team of 24 people working on a interface for an industrial construction machine. When we started 3 years ago, we had 9 women on the team, right now, we have NONE. Every single one of them left for the same reason. When we started to work more than 40 hours a week, they either a) asked for too much time off and had to be layed off or b) Outright quit. I am 55 years old and have been around this industry for a long time and I can tell you without a doubt that women (I know there are exceptions) generally won’t spend more than 40 hours a week month after month. Women put a higher price on spending time with their families than working those extra hours. I highly doubt the gaming industry is any different.
December 12th, 2007 at 4:58 pm
Great interview, both of you! I’m so glad there is a genuine girl blogger out there, one who neither promotes nor HIDES her sexuality. That’s the key in the game industry, or any industry: Gender or Race should never be deciding factors for or against anyone.
December 12th, 2007 at 6:02 pm
Uhh… Yeah.
Alot of text, I’ll try to touch on a couple subjects at least.
Firstly, the Jade comic made a point, I’m sure many missed it. The point was she was being used as a sales mechanism. “Buy Jade’s game”, the comic says. That’s exactly the point. “Look, she’s beautiful, buy her game.” That’s her curse. Her looks. Yes, it’s very much a curse. People can’t get over it because it doesn’t fit. She’s abnormal. And she’s being used as a sales mechanism. A machine. And yes you people keep spouting about how smart she is - I doubt it. Alot of people are being called ’smart’, but it’s all bull. ‘Her game’, Assassin’s Creed, has got an average review score of 82% at metacritic, which is something of a failure in this business. The game’s incredibly repetive. Everybody I know who’s into games agrees that it was a letdown (though a decent letdown). So how is she smart? Because she can be interviewed? Because she has design philosophies? Because she’s studied french? Give me a break. If she can be classified as smart, then everyone’s smart. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying she’s stupid in any way. I just resent her getting the “smart and beautiful” label. She’s “beautiful and not stupid”, is closer to the truth. IMO, 99% of the population can be classified as “smart”, making it a stupid label to put on people in the first place. There are very few people incapable of putting their minds to something and doing it as well as they can, using philosophies and ideas creatively. You just don’t see them, because the ordinary man is invisible.
Secondly, the same thing can be said about gamer girls. They’re abnormal. That’s why they get attention, which is both good and bad I presume. But the ‘problem’ is gamer girls just aren’t as hardcore as male gamers. This isn’t a complaint at your text, but more of a comment. Gamer girls don’t do real-time strategy from what I’ve seen, for example. That sucks. In-depth grand strategy like Hearts of Iron 2, for instance. I challenge you to prove me wrong. Girls mostly want shallow games like Halo, The Sims 2 and World of Warcraft. They don’t go for games that require large amounts of time and patience, like said strategy games. Deep role-playing games like Baldur’s Gate 2 also appear to be barred.
I don’t dislike gamer girls. My two elder sisters are gamers, sometimes. In fact, the eldest has played through KotOR, but that’s also more shallow and a smaller experience than Baldur’s Gate 2. I guess I have high standards. Girl gamers just aren’t as hardcore. I don’t dislike shallow games, I play Halo and The Sims 2 and enjoy them too. I enjoy most anything except sports games pretty much. But girl gamers have less breadth and less depth, mostly. There are exceptions I suppose, but they’re exceedingly rare from what I’ve seen. My eldest sister can be pretty hardcore, like noting down different trade routes in a space sim or a build when we play Diablo 2 on LAN.
December 12th, 2007 at 6:28 pm
“Oh, and the reason it’s called a Game BOY Advance? Because, the few exceptions notwithstanding, BOYS BOUGHT IT. GIRLS DID NOT. Not so hard to understand, is it?”
So because girls didn’t like games that were by and large designed by boys, games should continue to be a gender-exclusive entertainment medium?
Not possessing boobs myself, I guess that’d be OK. But if I was to ever work in games, I know I’d rather it not just be guys (and pasty white ones at that) all over the place. “Sausage party” comes to mind.
I don’t think it’s wrong to want gaming to be as inclusive as possible, “as possible” being the key words. It’s not going to change overnight. The Jade Raymond flareup illustrates very well just how high the wall is, and it’s easy to dismiss it as not worth the effort to surmount. But the alternative is keeping half the human beings on the planet largely turned off by games.
The fact that you can get 360 controllers and Nintendo DSes in pearl pink suggests that some people in the game industry actually regard female players as worth having. It’s a superficial thing, and I doubt every girl likes pink (or even likes being called a “girl.”) But it’s better than nothing.
I suppose it is worth pointing out that the comic is useful as commentary that Jade was being used as a superficial marketing ploy, but I don’t think that’s what the artist intended. After Ubisoft sent Somethingawful’s creator a cease & desist because someone put it up on the forums (it wasn’t him or the artist), he posted a doctored Xbox Achievement icon for “Made Jade Raymond Cry.”
(Disclaimer: I talk with Jane sometimes, so I got a preview of a lot of the above comments.)
December 12th, 2007 at 6:33 pm
Multiplayer: What do you think that women can do in the industry to overcome sexism?
I really don’t think this question has any context in this interview.
Irresponsible questions can lead to over-indulgent answers and its disappointing to see Pinckard go for the bait. I think this is the only portion of the interview where she drops her professionalism and resorts to cursing.
You could remove “in the industry” from that question and more or less get the same answer from any anybody.
Don’t get me wrong, I think woman SHOULD stand against up sexual discrimination… but wasn’t this article supposed to be about “Woman working in games”?? Not “winning the war against sexism”.
It was a poor way to end an otherwise very good interview.
scott.
December 12th, 2007 at 6:35 pm
It’s difficult to take a writer seriously when she talks like a 16 years old. “Like”, “like”, “like”… The interviewee is one angry woman too. They EXPLOITED Jade? Why isn’t she running to have her rights protected as a “woman”? Oh, I suppose the paycheck compensates well for the damages. If Jade Raymond didn’t like the attention, she could have rejected it, she could have stepped down. The fact is she shouldn’t have to and the fact that a few idiots disrespect women doesn’t mean you have to start taking life so *#$%#%@ seriously as to go running to HR about everything. There’s plenty of great women who represent games: Zoe Flower, Amy Hennig, Jade Raymond, Kellee Santiago etc. “Why did they call it Game “BOY”" Seriously, you’re going to be so *#$%#%@ stupid as complain about the specific name of a console? Do you want them to change the “Wii” to “Fannii”? You’re angry, we get it, you’re one angry GIRL gamer! Scream it out, really loud! I see the points she’s trying to make but I hate the way she expresses herself, she comes off as pretentious and a cry baby.
December 12th, 2007 at 6:57 pm
JtheYellow, I have a few things to respond to/point out.
“The Jade Raymond flareup illustrates very well just how high the wall is, and it’s easy to dismiss it as not worth the effort to surmount.”
Not really. Again, the issue was never that Jade is a beautiful woman. The issue was that Jade is a beautiful woman whose beauty was being used as a sales tactic and was given more attention than even the game itself. That second half is key. Nobody cares that Jade was a woman producing a game. They care that the emphasis was on how a beautiful woman was at the head of the game.
“The fact that you can get 360 controllers and Nintendo DSes in pearl pink suggests that some people in the game industry actually regard female players as worth having.”
A lot of that is insulting when geared toward women, too. There’s pictures of stands called “Games for Girls” with things like Cooking Mama and Ponyz on them. They’re geared toward little girls, but it’s still an insult. There’s even “code books” aimed at women to help them “beat the boys,” and they have the same games listed.
“I suppose it is worth pointing out that the comic is useful as commentary that Jade was being used as a superficial marketing ploy, but I don’t think that’s what the artist intended. After Ubisoft sent Somethingawful’s creator a cease & desist because someone put it up on the forums (it wasn’t him or the artist), he posted a doctored Xbox Achievement icon for “Made Jade Raymond Cry.””
You’re basically trying to use the acts of some completely unrelated individual that was inspired by the artist’s work as a sign of the artist’s intentions. I don’t see how that makes logical sense, but okay.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:18 pm
This was a good interview, as was the Morgan Webb interview from Monday. (Have yet to read the latest at this time)
There are a lot of things with sexism and (potential) sexual harassment that can overlap from contextually “acceptable” to “unacceptable,” and I’m glad Jane said she recognizes that there is good-natured ribbing in the games industry and that that freer spirit for expression is one thing that helps shape the game industry compared to the rest of the business world.
I’m also glad that she noted that people who play games are pretty good at spotting public relations BS , because I think that’s true as well.
I’m more sensitive and empathetic now to Jane’s feelings, and more women in general, about the Jade Raymond comic now since I read this piece, and partially because of reading Morgan Webb’s interview. That’s because in Webb interview Morgan mentioned that someone can write her a nasty email because they don’t believe she’s a person, that some of ‘em would retract what they’d say if she was upfront with them over what they wrote and how it was demeaning and unacceptable.
I still think Ubisoft’s corralling of Ms. Raymond all over the place for Assassin’s Creed was overdone, that it came off as fake and that someone went way over the top in calling out Ubi on their attempt at cashing in on sexuality.
But that’s small cakes compared to the content of the interview, Jane’s impressions of the situations she has been in and what she sees, getting more (qualified) females in the industry, which is needed and I hope sought after all over the place, and having more content aimed at women.
December 12th, 2007 at 9:58 pm
I thought it was a good interview… I don’t agree with all of her points but I can see where she’s coming from. I agree with diversity in the workplace. It is imporant and definitely not limited to gender or race. there’s age, background, general life experience, etc. the awesome thing about diversity is that you get so many more options. every idea can have a different take.
P.S.
John,
“But the ‘problem’ is gamer girls just aren’t as hardcore as male gamers.”
wow. just…. wow.
Just wanted to point out a few things about myself as “a” gamer.
1) yes, as it happens I am a girl. I also happen to be a gamer. I’m not sure that i feel the need to label myself as far as “hardcore”, “casual”, etc… I play games because I enjoy them. pure and simple. I don’t look down on others for having different tastes. that, my friend, is life and is not limited by gender or anything else. I never did like generalizations.
2)Yes I like Halo. mostly because it’s the first FPS that I actually took the time to play… (other than old Wolfenstein on PC back in the mid ’90s) I also enjoy GRAW, Quake(at least the hour before it makes me sick), Chromehounds, Elder Scrolls, Gears, Live arcade games, Viva Pinata, GoW, Mario games, Diablo series, bioshock(before i accidentally saved over my save). I prefer Team based online gaming. I enjoy killing two birds with one stone. hang out with friends/play games.
3) LOVED the baulder’s gate series. which.. i’ve never characterized as a “DEEP role-playing game.” seriously.
4) Just because you’ve never seen something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. I am by no means a “hardcore” gamer, but i do know that there are chicks out there a lot more hc than me.. if they even were anything at all remotely close to what you might or might not consider “hardcore” or not.
P.s.s.
Patnai..
“It’s difficult to take a writer seriously when she talks like a 16 years old.”
Right. :/ and i’ll spin it for you.
It’s difficult to take Patnai seriously when he talks like a 16 year old kid. “*@$@*## ”, “ *@$@*## ”, “ *@$@*## “…Patnai is one angry fella…. and I see the points he’s trying to make but I hate the way he expresses himself.
December 13th, 2007 at 1:03 am
Disclaimer: I work in marketing in the games industry
The key stakeholders ARE ALWAYS used in marketing….that means either the producer, lead programmer, and/or CEO.
We always promote these people as the faces of the game regardless of gender or age. A humanizing and recognition factor to be used in ATL(media) and BTL (event based) marketing
Jade was being utilized by Ubisoft the same way they would plaster Mathieu Ferland all over the place with Splinter Cell, the way Warren Spector was used all over the place for Deus Ex, the way Will Wright is used with Sims and Spore
this crap about the SA toon being a reaction to Ubi’s handling of her is pure spoonfed wanked out excuse to somehow shift blame. Because its easier to demonize big corporations than our own community. Face it. Ubi did absolutely nothing wrong here..the onus and the shame should be on you who think that this is a rational justification.
Maybe the industry itself is to blame for creating such an environment in the userbase through the ways booth girls and etc. are used. I always thought that kind of BTL marketing was always short on any beneficial effect. To be fair there should be booth studs in addition to booth babes…that is the best way to maximize your ROI. Either that or do away with them entirely.
Oh and the publicist Lindsey Lohan thingie someone mentioned? The amount of knowledge that person has on PR activities in hollywood is similar to many of the people’s knowledge of how game marketing works.
ZERO. Z. E. R. O. accuracy.
December 13th, 2007 at 3:19 am
god, i wish more intelligent people like this (female or male) existed in this world. it’s a big world with many different types of people that all deserve to be treated equal and i’m happy when anyone acknowledges that.
December 13th, 2007 at 7:49 am
Responses to John Kwag.
“Jade was being utilized by Ubisoft the same way they would plaster Mathieu Ferland all over the place with Splinter Cell, the way Warren Spector was used all over the place for Deus Ex, the way Will Wright is used with Sims and Spore.”
I’ve actually never heard of any of those three since I didn’t play them, so I can’t speak on them, but I would assume that other people that worked on those games got interviewed from time to time. And even if not, the focus must have been on the games and not the people talking about them, since I haven’t seen an uproar. The only popular producers other than Jade (who got that popularity for being the “hot, beautiful woman producer”) are ones who have been in the industry for so long and had such a powerful effect that they DESERVE the attention. People like Miyamoto.
“this crap about the SA toon being a reaction to Ubi’s handling of her is pure spoonfed wanked out excuse to somehow shift blame. Because its easier to demonize big corporations than our own community. Face it. Ubi did absolutely nothing wrong here..the onus and the shame should be on you who think that this is a rational justification.”
This is where most people would just shoot back “Well, how about if YOU are just trying to shift the blame back on the community so that companies will just keep using how they have a pretty woman working on the game as a selling point.” That will get us nowhere because you’d just spout something back and we’d cycle back and forth for several comments. The point here is that Ubisoft went overboard with showing off how they have a beautiful female producer on board for the game, and someone called them out on it by making an extremely harsh comic rather than doing a long spiel about how wrong it is that, ultimately, nobody would care about. Do you think my comments will go far beyond this site? No, they won’t. Unless it’s someone famous, nobody will care. A comic, however, THAT gets reposted all over the internet, especially if it’s extreme. And the message goes with it.
Anyway, if you still want to go with the “har people are just trying to shift blame” excuse, then I won’t bother responding next time. It’s simply not the case, and trying to debunk it is a waste of time if it takes more than a few responses.
“Maybe the industry itself is to blame for creating such an environment in the userbase through the ways booth girls and etc. are used. I always thought that kind of BTL marketing was always short on any beneficial effect. To be fair there should be booth studs in addition to booth babes…that is the best way to maximize your ROI. Either that or do away with them entirely.”
Sure thing, go try to get booth studs out there alongside the booth babes. I can’t say whether or not it’ll justify the money spent depending on demographics, but it’s only fair.
Here’s the thing with booth babes. They don’t have claims to direct ties with the game itself like someone working on the game does. When you see a booth babe, you KNOW she’s just being paid to stand there and promote the game with charisma and good looks. She doesn’t get plastered everywhere moreso than the game itself, she’s just there to catch the eyes of some people who may casually glance their way. The Jade Raymond situation, on the other hand, was an attempt to use a beautiful girl’s direct connection to the game as a selling point, and unlike booth babes, she got plastered everywhere to the point where it at least looks like it was more about promoting her involvement with the game than promoting the game itself.
December 13th, 2007 at 4:08 pm
Interesting topic and insight. Regarding Jade, I never heard of her nor the scandal until THIS series of articles. So in a way, you’re contributing to Jade’s “problem”, while exposing it for discussion at the same time. I wonder which she’d prefer. Did you ask her if she wanted it kept as quiet as possible or not?
Second, a topic which NEVER comes up in these male vs female in game industry discussions is the role of female PEERS. Peers have an impact as well. Say a young woman tells her friends she wants to work in video games, will it have the same reaction from her peer group as it would if she said she wanted to go into… medicine? or fashion design?
I guess what I’m asking is… could it be that working in video games isn’t perceived by young females as quite the “cool job” as young males percieve it to be? I have a 13 yr old here who sees me work on games every day, yet never shows an interest. Meanwhile I see 13 year old boys on game programming forums trying to learn how to make games!
December 13th, 2007 at 4:31 pm
“You’re basically trying to use the acts of some completely unrelated individual that was inspired by the artist’s work as a sign of the artist’s intentions. I don’t see how that makes logical sense, but okay.”
No, I’m using the creator of the cartoon (I guess you could call him “artist”) in question, and his actions, on his own site. He is not an “unrelated individual.”
http://chugworth.com/?strip_id=391 is what I meant.
Are you a girl, Zog?
December 13th, 2007 at 9:30 pm
“No, I’m using the creator of the cartoon (I guess you could call him “artist”) in question, and his actions, on his own site. He is not an “unrelated individual.””
It seems I read it differently/wrong from what you meant. I read it as “after the artist’s comic got posted on the site, someone else made the doctored Xbox Achievement icon.” With this in mind, do you have a link where it’s made clear that he’s the one who made it? For all I know, he’s only posting an image he found amusing that was made based on the fallout from his comic.
“Are you a girl, Zog?”
I knew this would come up eventually. It makes sense, but I always feel a little annoyed by it because such things are often asked in an attempt to move from getting at the nitty gritty of the situation and take it toward the ever-cloudy and diluting “different life situation, you can’t understand, etc” argument.
I am male. I get along better with females. I can generally connect with them more than with other guys, and I’m more comfortable around them.
December 15th, 2007 at 2:20 am
@Rawrasaur: You are inferring things in that post that were not implied. Jane’s blog is “by girls for girls”. The point wasn’t for you or any other guy to use it as wank material; it’s supposed to be a “hey girls, check out this neat thing I found!”. Believe it or not, women have libidos of their own, and saying so doesn’t automatically mean we are catering to men. That certainly wasn’t the first time women have shared masturbation tips. Hello, dryer, cell phone, detachable showerhead, etc. I guess the racy cotton t-shirt and cartoon butterfly panties confused you. It’s an easy mistake to make.
@Arby: That would really depend on who the girl picks to be her friends. At 13, yeah, most kids are sexist little snots, but when the time comes to actually pick a career, most of them are over it. I’ve talked to lots of women in my life (ages 15-70) about my decision to go in CS and none of them have said anything negative. Comments I have gotten:
- “wow, you must be pretty smart”
- “you’re going to be rich”
- “don’t forget me when you’re famous”
- “you should make another [Animal Crossing/Gaia Online/etc] and let me play it”
(I never said they were realistic. :D)
December 15th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
I personally think a lot of the “work” that needs to be done in getting females better representation in the gaming industry is through the media, the way we talk about games, the way we advertise games. I am a female gamer and a writer for a female gaming site (www.chicksdiggames.com) and I think it is important to talk about these issues. Gaming is not being criticized as a media form the way it should be and neither are the women who work in the industry. I just think we need to start thinking about games more broadly and with that will come a newer definition of a gamer or a “girl gamer.” Girl gamers, like any gamers, are all different, experience gameplay differently and want different things from the industry. To be lumped together or to be represented by extreme ends of the spectrum (e.g. the sexualized gamer vs. the geeky girl) makes little sense.
January 6th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
[…] Game Girl Advance’s Jane Pinckard Talks Lara Croft, Male vs. Female Gamers […]
January 9th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
[…] on women and game design, part of a five-interview series (see also briefer commentary at Cerise): Jane Pinckard on the Jade Raymond issue as well as Halo, hiring practices, and the act of speaking about women in […]
January 19th, 2008 at 9:39 am
Ok - As a gamer who so happens to be famale, let me first point out that although this interview is “pro females” in the community - it’s still just another set back in the SELF-CREATED following of “FEMALE GAMERS NEEDING TO LIBERATE THEMSELVES!!”
So what. I’m a girl and I play video Games. I also work for the media and a few Lan Tournament. It’s nothing new. It’s nothing special. I’m all for girl power, but IMO, places like XBL are no place for the feminist manufesto
Now I am not saying that I think ill of the female community, only that if you want to be treated like equals - climb down from the pedestal and realise that it’s a fricken video game! I think the more people feel comfortable with that, the less we can make “Gamer Girls” a huge issue.
February 21st, 2008 at 11:09 pm
I am woman, hear me roar. Rawr! *coughs* Anyways. I’ve been playing pc games almost 20 years now. First Wolfenstein games, other fps that were blocky. The orginal Arena: Elder Scrolls. The games i’ve played through the years are varied from FPS to RPGs. Gosh, who thought that women or females in general gravitate towards certain games? Lies. Sterotyping to the max. So what someone says “like” in their speach? Again thats sterotyping. Stop putting people in the box. Heck, its all in what a person likes… not what A guy likes or a gal likes, what people like and they are as varied as there is skin colors and names in the world. ON line do we really pay attention to gender? Nope! ITs a name, a place, a avatar, a ‘toon, a character, what ever you want to call that tiny character that you move around in any game.
Let me list the games I have on my bookcase right now:
KotOR
KotOR2
Tribes: Vengance
Tribes2
Gothic2
Gothic3
CoD4
Quake 4
QW:ET
Red Faction2
UT04
UT3
Unreal Gold
Unreal2
Prison Tycoon
The Orange Box
Halo
WarRock
Doom3
Are these games really all that specfic to a gender or a genere? Nope, you got FPS, RPGs, puzzle, tactical and the mindless fun. So who ever said that women only gravitate towards certain game types is very wrong. Its only what someone publicly says that people seem to take into acount because they ask the wrong questions.
As for this interview. It wasn’t so good really though some things Pinckard said hit home for me. I’ve wanted to be the woman in the gaming industry. I wanted to create a kickass game that people like, I want to be part of that because I don’t see very many games anymore that I want. I get games now to play with people I know for the most part and avoid games that I dislike how they do things *cough*wow*cough* The fact that any woman does her best to rise above a male dominated industry and try to supase the glass ceiling is worth respect. The fact that a guy drew a comic depicting a woman giving a BJ to some guy is disrespectful and in bad taste no matter if he was pointing out how used she was being. So what? Does that give you the right to go out publiclly and slap someone in the fact or punch them in the gut? Nope. Have to say no matter how good a artist, he was tactless as a pile of dog doo.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:29 pm
First, I really enjoyed reading this interview. It was much more thought provoking than the previous, in my opinion.
Second, I haven’t played Assassin’s Creed yet and have not seen any promotional videos or interviews as I thought I’d try to avoid “spoilers.” Therefore, I had never heard of Jade Raymond or the comic referenced here.
Third, from the way it is described in the interview and the following comments, it seems clear to me that the statement of the piece was not an attack directed at Ms. Raymond personally but at Ubisoft for questionable and possibly inappropriate marketing techniques. On one hand, the artist could have easily parodied the situation without using Ms. Raymond’s actual name or likeness. However, I fail to see how that would have really been any less offensive, only less personal and as stated before, I don’t think the ire of the strip was aimed at her. As is often stated with words; they only have what power you give them. If Ms. Raymond was hurt or offended by the comic it is because she has missed it’s point and/or allowed herself be offended. The public eye casts the harhest light of all and people who enter incautiously are often ill-prepared for the backlash.
On the topic of diverting blame, I think the one who would benefit most from this tactic would be Ubisoft. It seems easy enough to present Ms. Raymond as the victim here while escaping the criticism obviously intended for them.
Finally, I have to disagree with Jane’s comment that, “…those dudes who are like, “It’s not a big deal. I’d be flattered if it happened to me,” or whatever, it’s like, really would you? If you were depicted giving a f–king #@~$%## to these gamer geeks, you would think that’s flattering? They would go ballistic. And they don’t even think about that. It’s really difficult for them to consider.” I know plenty of men who would have no problem shrugging this off were they in this exact situation. I really think this is internalized misogyny on Jade’s part. I say this because while I know plenty of straight men who would not be bothered or feel threatened if this strip included them I know gay men who would be much more likely to have a reaction similar to the one attributed to Ms. Raymond. It’s feeling dirty and guilty simply by association–not stoping to realize rationally that it’s not really you giving a blow job that they’re seeing. Someone who has never actually performed or thought of performing oral sex is far less likely to have such concerns. And further still, there are some who are secure enough that they would not let it affect them either way.
Last but not least, an artist’s obligation is to create art and evoke a response from his audience. An artist is not obligated to leave viewers safely within their comfort zones. In this regard, the cartoonist mentioned here is beyond reproach despite your feelings regarding his work. This, I truly believe.